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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 7:31 pm 
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thats exactly what i was gonna say - what you doing coxy ? you must like headaches lol

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:35 pm 
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4ZE1 is a reluctor type dissy. or so i was told. Been about 5 years since i've had the cap off an E1 so i cant remember... also E1 dissy's are expensive and hard to find up here. no wreckers on the sunshine coast have an E1 in their yard! reluctor is a s*#t signal for an ecu, hall effect or optical is a much cleaner more reliable signal. and i wanted a home and reference signal, i want to run msd, and the cheapest way for me to do it is to run 2XCSI boxes on waste spark with dual coils.

anyways, i abandoned the MX5 idea and went for magna hall effect guts in a slightly machined piazza distributor body. has a home and reference signal. dissy cost $50, piazza one i already had, plus $90 in machining by george may. and i now have exactly what i want, with easy to find and replace (not that they ever seem to fail) magna hall effect guts! and seriously it is the easiest thing in the world to do!




and yes darren i knew that might upset you, me saying such horrible things about the G series, and man i have a lot of respect for u being able to push it that far! but hey how much development have u put into that motor to get it where it is? about 15-20 years worth? i honestly believe the 4Z will be a much more reliable thing for big boost. it is also a lighter & shorter engine. u know just as well as i do the siamesed bore in the G series isnt the best thing to keep cylinders sealed from each other! i have had a few turbo G series myself, and i know whats involved in keeping them together.

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1975 TX coupe 4ZD1 efi turbo 10.787 @ 123/128
1977 TC Fashion Pack sedan draw through turbo
1984 TG PF60E dohc Group A racecar
1984 TG Panelvan
2006 Crewman SS 6.0


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:48 pm 
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Location: Melton,Vic.....
redzone (coxy) wrote:
and yes darren i knew that might upset you, me saying such horrible things about the G series, and man i have a lot of respect for u being able to push it that far! but hey how much development have u put into that motor to get it where it is? about 15-20 years worth? i honestly believe the 4Z will be a much more reliable thing for big boost. it is also a lighter & shorter engine. u know just as well as i do the siamesed bore in the G series isnt the best thing to keep cylinders sealed from each other! i have had a few turbo G series myself, and i know whats involved in keeping them together.

Coxy,
I'm not fazed mate,just stiring :wink: ..yes there is alot of R&D thats gone into my engine but dont forget, their not the kind of engine that were made to handle near 600hp,especially with the standard crank...I myself havent had much to do with the D1 or even the E1 engines yet but I can't see why you cant make big power with them especially with the bore and stroke they have....Might even put one in the new car once Ive hit the limit with the G180..
Darren

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:29 pm 
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haha and u did a good job :lol:

yeah the way i see it, the 4Z engines are just an updated version of the G series. very similar head design, more compact, stronger (looking at least) block, shorter stronger crank, easier to adjust/use timing setup, and heaps larger capacity. i wanted to stay street legal with this thing so i went for the D1 instead of E1. i think in a drag car you'd have to look at an E1, although the D1 has more meat between cylinders of course....


ooh yes and E1 dissy's are optical, but have a weird setup. my magna conversion is better i think.

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GARAGE REDZONE sunshine coast ph 07 54433507

1975 TX coupe 4ZD1 efi turbo 10.787 @ 123/128
1977 TC Fashion Pack sedan draw through turbo
1984 TG PF60E dohc Group A racecar
1984 TG Panelvan
2006 Crewman SS 6.0


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 9:14 pm 
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And this is why Im going back to a gemini from being away in a Astina SP20 for a couple years, that thing is pure porn :shock: . I dont know if ya can remember me coxy, but a couple years back (april 06?) we had a bbq at yours & ryan's place after an astina cruise, u showed me the full album of the gem and what not... Ryan showed me a couple progress shots a while back, its good to see u've side-lined the starions and your working to get this on the road :)

Cant wait to see this on a cruise.

Marc

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 7:33 am 
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ahh yeah i remember man 8)

so have u got rid of the astina or keeping it??

and running that TE in the avatar or something else?

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GARAGE REDZONE sunshine coast ph 07 54433507

1975 TX coupe 4ZD1 efi turbo 10.787 @ 123/128
1977 TC Fashion Pack sedan draw through turbo
1984 TG PF60E dohc Group A racecar
1984 TG Panelvan
2006 Crewman SS 6.0


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:32 am 
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coxy - couple of things:

e1 dizzy is a complete optical trigger disc CAS - im using it to run my config and will be using CDI

As for 4z vs G series - couldnt agree more - my hat goes totally off to daren for the R&D gone into his g-series' over the years, but for us mere mortals i believe its easier to start with something of greater design in the first place

siamese bores of the 4z series means we can get away with larger bores and higher combustion chamber pressures than a g series, without the risk of warping and collapsing cylinder walls (eat s*#t sr20 owners - f@*ken sleeves hehehe :twisted: )

benefits are also inclusive but not limited to the following:
- forged crank
- belt driven
- symmetrical bore spacing
- well thought out lubrication system - able to flow enough juice up to 7500rpm (still want a dry sump but no $$)
- rod ratios in stock form are fairly decent (although mine have been tinkered with to suit my application)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:32 am 
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Pretty sure g series engines have forged rods and cranks as well, and the siamese bore doesnt really pose a strength issue like youd think it would.

Dont get me started on SR20's...

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:11 pm 
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I think it would have to be easier to run a 9 in the larger 2.3 ltr engine compared to the 1.8,thats only common sense...
Good luck with the car mate and I hope you run the numbers but don't think running 9's is easy,because if it was everyone would be doing it,I just hope these engines are as cracked up to be as everyone's saying they are because so far we're yet to see a 2.3 perform to make big power.....


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:59 pm 
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speaking of seeing theses (4Z)engines perform what is the most power anyone has ever seen out of one of them???ive seen 420RWHP from a built piazza C1 on c16 and 27 psi,id like to better that eventually on less boost,anyone seen more????


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 6:24 pm 
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ive seen 680hp at the wheels from a full fledged 4ze1 turbo

someone on this site too :wink:

nick - siamese bores play a big part dude if youre running higher than average compression and big boost

eg - my compression ratio is 8.2:1 and im hoping to send 36psi through the prick

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:47 pm 
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DR_GEM wrote:
ive seen 680hp at the wheels from a full fledged 4ze1 turbo

someone on this site too :wink:

nick - siamese bores play a big part dude if youre running higher than average compression and big boost

eg - my compression ratio is 8.2:1 and im hoping to send 36psi through the prick


DR_GEM
Care to say who made that power :wink: :wink: :wink:
And can you also tell me "In your opinion" why a siamese bore is better????


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:53 am 
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Quote:
nick - siamese bores play a big part dude if youre running higher than average compression and big boost


yeah i know mick but what i meant was it doesnt affect g series engines as much as you would think - their pretty rigid/strong. Whereas the SR20 on the other hand....snap.

Nick-

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:54 pm 
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Answer to both nick and turbogemguy

Siamese bores obviously gives you more meat in between cylinder walls and not just hollow enclaves around the cylinders themselves. This makes the block sturdier in the event that meat is taken out of the cylinder walls (ie an overbore) and gives "bracing" for lack of a better word when cylinder pressures are upped in a high boost or even extremely high compression application. This provides support to the cyilnders so that they are not flexing under extreme heat\friction\expanding forces.

As for the g series' being strong - im not doubting that - but tell me how many g series' blocks you have seen coping with say a 120 thou bore job and 20psi + of boost - the limiting factor here is the amount of actual meat in between the bores, which is made worse in the g series' blocks because cylinders two and three are so close together, which only magnifies this potential problem

Oh and turbogemguy - i really dont wanna post any names just in case the person doesnt wanna advertise the power they have made - its not my motor dude so unfortunately i cant release details of it - wish i could though :D

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:36 pm 
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DR_GEM wrote:
Answer to both nick and turbogemguy

Siamese bores obviously gives you more meat in between cylinder walls and not just hollow enclaves around the cylinders themselves. This makes the block sturdier in the event that meat is taken out of the cylinder walls (ie an overbore) and gives "bracing" for lack of a better word when cylinder pressures are upped in a high boost or even extremely high compression application. This provides support to the cyilnders so that they are not flexing under extreme heat\friction\expanding forces.

As for the g series' being strong - im not doubting that - but tell me how many g series' blocks you have seen coping with say a 120 thou bore job and 20psi + of boost - the limiting factor here is the amount of actual meat in between the bores, which is made worse in the g series' blocks because cylinders two and three are so close together, which only magnifies this potential problem

Oh and turbogemguy - i really dont wanna post any names just in case the person doesnt wanna advertise the power they have made - its not my motor dude so unfortunately i cant release details of it - wish i could though :D

Ok,so if you bored out a 4Z engine 120 thou if wouldn't have any problems then????


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