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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:09 am 
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So, not many updates on my other car, and not many updates on this either. TBH should never have started the bodywork on this one [mrs regrets it now majorly] but oh well, we've started so we must finish.

Doesnt matter how straight a car looks before you start doing bodywork....erm, quickly discover its not.

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That said, apart from the LH doors, bootlid and rear quarter most of the panel beating and filler work is done.

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Painted the bay satin black, original paint was a mess [car has been sprayed before so multi layers, reactions etc] so went with the easy option. Have been hoping for a while now to finish up the engine so I can drop it in/make space in my garage.

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Did some highfill on the LHR door, front guard and bootlid - was a f*#cking disaster, highfill was thin as hence the rub throughs. That said, door is near on perfect

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Bootlid needs way, WAY more filler than whats in this photo. Wavy as f*#k.

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Engine wise, we had a change of turbo plans. Now has a Kinugawa 450hp roller on a highrise manifold.

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Rotating the front cover unfortunately meant the wastegate was COMPLETELY on the wrong side, so had to f*#k around making brackets. Started with some cardboard and some masking tape.

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Looks like it might work

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So I made one at work on the sheet brake out of aluminium just to see if it will work. Spoiler alert, it does.

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Lines. Bloody lines. None of the photos work in the 4ZC1 / 4ZE1 manifold to G series thread, so for anyone searching heres how I did it.

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Turbo lines

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Need to get the sump done [have been meaning to do this for over a year now....oops] and get it all into the car.

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:36 am 
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Location: Canberra. Where the Fast Geminis live
Get
it
Done.

Nationals not far off.

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:43 am 
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Working.
On.
Other.
One.

You should know this.

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:22 pm 
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Omerrgheed updates.

Image

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Coloured in.

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N-

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:18 pm 
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Will look good all back together!

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:13 am 
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not sure whats happened to the pics, they were working yesterday and now there not today!!!! and ways nice car man
looks good as, have you used a Kinugawa before? i was thinking of using a mambatek turbo. can get them with ceramic BB but cant find any reviews on them.
also where did yoy get the turbo mani from?

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:06 am 
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Not sure whats happened, its weird - some peoples photobucket accounts are working fine, others are coming up as broken image. Ill be severely pissed if its done an imageshack....my other build thread is f*#cking 14 pages long :( . Looks like your avatar is playing up as well. Weird as, hopefully it fixes itself. I can access my library but cant open any of the photos. Anyway. Car comes back tonight, was hoping to upload photos of it assembled but that wont be happening without photofuckits cooperation.

I haven't personally used the Kinugawa stuff before, but a mate with a heavily modd'd SR20 recommend I give it a try because I refused to pay 1k for a second hand GT2871RS. He used one on his brothers R33 [~270rwkw from memory] and it was within 10-15rwkw of what equivalent spec Garrett stuff was making, reliability was good [ie its still going] and he was pretty happy with what he paid for it. Having said that price has gone up a bit since than so it may not be as worth it as it once was. Personally, if you had a full-forged bottom end and were chasing big power, Id skip it and go straight to the known quantities - Garret, Borg warner, Precision etc. But for a budget build then it would possibly be worth a shot if the price is right. We only went down this path because it was meant to be a budget build for the Mrs to have some fun. Engine will only be in for a year or two at which point ill probably get rid of all of it and go DOHC.

Havent heard anything about the Mambatek stuff, but might be worth searching for build threads via google. Surely theres someone on a forum somewhere thats used one. Or maybe ask around/ask drifters? Guys in Vic are notoriously tight so someones bound to have tried one. As for the turbo manifold, its something I had lieing around. Was purchased through someone relatively well known but it was an absolute piece of s*#t, flanges were welded on crooked, was supposed to have been machined/ready to use but wasnt etc. Again, I only used it because I had it here. Turbogemini / Bens stuff looks pretty good, he can be hard to get a hold of but thats what id be looking at if I needed a manifold now.

Nick

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:34 am 
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F3ARED wrote:
Not sure whats happened, its weird - some peoples photobucket accounts are working fine, others are coming up as broken image. Ill be severely pissed if its done an imageshack....my other build thread is f*#cking 14 pages long :( . Looks like your avatar is playing up as well. Weird as, hopefully it fixes itself. I can access my library but cant open any of the photos.


yeah i just realised that my avatar is gone too!!! hope i havnt lost all my pics :/



F3ARED wrote:
I haven't personally used the Kinugawa stuff before, but a mate with a heavily modd'd SR20 recommend I give it a try because I refused to pay 1k for a second hand GT2871RS. He used one on his brothers R33 [~270rwkw from memory] and it was within 10-15rwkw of what equivalent spec Garrett stuff was making, reliability was good [ie its still going] and he was pretty happy with what he paid for it. Having said that price has gone up a bit since than so it may not be as worth it as it once was. Personally, if you had a full-forged bottom end and were chasing big power, Id skip it and go straight to the known quantities - Garret, Borg warner, Precision etc. But for a budget build then it would possibly be worth a shot if the price is right. We only went down this path because it was meant to be a budget build for the Mrs to have some fun. Engine will only be in for a year or two at which point ill probably get rid of all of it and go DOHC.


im trying to do my relatively cheap, found a guy with a golf gti on the mambatek turbo and he swears buy it, said hed never go back to garret ect ect ect. mamatek claims to have there stuff fit with garret, ie buy a garret thats stuffed and can re build it using there stuff! so think it would be pretty similar in performance

F3ARED wrote:
Havent heard anything about the Mambatek stuff, but might be worth searching for build threads via google. Surely theres someone on a forum somewhere thats used one. Or maybe ask around/ask drifters? Guys in Vic are notoriously tight so someones bound to have tried one. As for the turbo manifold, its something I had lieing around. Was purchased through someone relatively well known but it was an absolute piece of s*#t, flanges were welded on crooked, was supposed to have been machined/ready to use but wasnt etc. Again, I only used it because I had it here. Turbogemini / Bens stuff looks pretty good, he can be hard to get a hold of but thats what id be looking at if I needed a manifold now.


i was thinking of using one of those turbo manifolds, im running a 4z so the ports would be a little differnt as 4z have square ports (or is it round? which ever way there what ever g seires isnt) so would still require some modding to flow properly. wish i didnt sell my old manifold now haha

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:27 pm 
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Appears to be working again. Try clearing history and it should start to come up.

Depends on which part of the performance they are referring to - reliability, or actual air flow/power. I dare say the potential air flow would be a bit different given that Garrett would be making their own compressor/exhaust wheels and unless they [aftermarket manufacturer X] have carbon copied it to the exact micron it would probably be different. Does any of that matter? Not really, particularly if your realistic about what you expect to achieve from it. Would any of the more reputable Chinese made turbos out perform in [in both air flow and reliability] a 20yr old OEM garrett thats had a questionable life? Id say definately. What sort of sizing are you looking at, power delivery etc, and what sort of power are you hoping to hit? One area to look at is the wastegate, from what I've heard from others [again always take second hand info with a grain of salt], boost control can be left a bit wanting, usually down to poor casting/machining around the wastegate flap in the exhaust housing. Relatively easily fixed with a bit of porting, or, just forgo all that and go external straight off the bat.

4Z is round, G series is square. Little bit of modding needed to use one on the other but shouldnt be too much of a headache, just a quick clean up with the die grinder. Runner diameter generally tends to be bigger than exhaust port anyway, so the shape of the flange [provided its not obstructing the port] doesnt really matter all that much given that its flowing into a round pipe almost immediately. Id be very, VERY suprised if there was any turbulent flow in that area.

N-

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:03 pm 
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oh yeah seems to be working again and i didnt have to do anything, probably just an error on there end

i was looking at either the gt2871 or the gt3071. with small ar for response.
want to get like 200kw-250kw.
thats true about the wastegate, probably something that gets overlooked with cheap turbos.

i guess the better it flows straight out of the head the better it would respond and the more power it would make ever all, might not be a huge difference but every little bit counts i guess.

probably this 2871
http://shop.mambatek.com/Nissan-TD42-Pa ... egoryId=-1

or this 3071
http://shop.mambatek.com/Ball-Bearing-G ... egoryId=-1

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:38 pm 
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sandy wrote:
i was looking at either the gt2871 or the gt3071. with small ar for response.
want to get like 200kw-250kw.


At the flywheel or at the wheels? If so, even the real deal GT2871 wont get to 250rwkw, just too small for that sort of power. Something like a Garret Gt3071 should comfortably be capable of flowing enough air to do it.

sandy wrote:
thats true about the wastegate, probably something that gets overlooked with cheap turbos.


Came across this earlier funnily enough whilst researching something I probably shouldnt be researching just yet :lol: . Might come in handy; either way decent enough insight in the sort of things to check when looking at these things. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kKFeT_xxpU . Personally, id steer away from the V-band/Internal gate rear housings as shown in video/some of those mambatek turbos - look really restrictive. Either get the normal internal gate rear housing [ie exposed flapper] or if you must have a v-band, modify it so that the wastegate and exhaust gasses are seperate. Ie weld a piece in between, then open up the back of that housing cover/piece so the wastegate gas goes straight out if that makes sense.

sandy wrote:
i guess the better it flows straight out of the head the better it would respond and the more power it would make ever all, might not be a huge difference but every little bit counts i guess.


Theoretically yes, but probably irrelevant at the sort of power levels/air speeds we are discussing. Basic fluid dynamics - think of it like filling up a 2l coke bottle with the garden tap, when the fluid velocity is past a certain speed it [the fluid or in this case water] doesnt actually hit the sides of the vessel [bottle, exhaust pipe etc] until a point where the velocity has begun to slow, usually further down the vessel. So the exhaust manifold for example - say where youve modified the square section of the g series manifold to round is contained to the flange section. Provided that its been smoothed as much as possible and there are no sections that overlap the path of airflow at any point, the air speed should mean that the exhaust gas basically skips this bit before it gets the chance to expand and become turbulent.

sandy wrote:


Id probably avoid that first one. Theres no compressor maps available which would help work out exactly what sort of air it moves so take what im saying with a grain of salt, but compare it to this one:

http://shop.mambatek.com/Ball-Bearing-G ... 2-0017.htm

Same compressor wheel including A/R, inducer/exducer size and trim. Same turbine wheel incl sizing and trim, the difference [from what i can see] being the rear housing size. The one i linked is marked as being suitable as for a 1.8 to 2.5L engine and uses a .7 rear housing vs the .64 other the Patrol one. Assuming the potential HP flow figures they've listed are correct, the 2871R i linked [listed as 280 to 350hp] is around 50hp down vs the equivalent Garrett its based on, so nowhere near enough for 200rwkw. Based off the lack of flow, id say the smaller rear housing would hurt it.

This one here is similar to what I got for Natashas car

http://shop.mambatek.com/9-11-Turbo-3-A ... 1-0676.htm

Cant remember if hers is a 16 or 18G, but anyway - note that the HP flow [350 to 400] exceeds the Garrett copies they have despite the smaller in/exducers on both the compressor and turbine wheel indicating the wheel and cover design in this one works better...ofcourse, this is assuming that the HP figures theyve listed in the first place are accurate! Long story short, id expect a turbo rated at 350-400hp flow to potentially be capable of a maximum of 220rwkw. I base that off a rough rule of thumb ive always used: HP figure x .75 to convert to kw, x.75 for driveline loss. Anything over that [ie produce more power than the turbo is capable of of flowing] would require the turbo to be operating at over 100% efficiency which put simply, will never happen.

If I were you, for those sort of power figures, id be looking in the 450hp range. Garrett has some decent resources you can look at including a turbo selector. Also while we are at it, another thing to keep in mind is the website you linked [if thats where you were planning on buying it from] is in USD. Price of turbo plus 100 shipping puts you at around 1200AUD. Could get the real deal for that sort of price...

Hope i havent confused you :lol:

Anyway. Picked it up in the dark last night, prettttty happy with it. Two spots will need further touching up but will see how noticable they are once parts go back on.

Image

Image

And before anyone asks...no red pearl, its just the tail lights from the land cruiser.

N-

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:56 pm 
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yeah thats the dilemma im having, do i sacrifice over all hp and have something thats going to be really punch down load or sacrifice some response for a little extra power haha

thats good idea. ill have to watch the video when i get the chance

the idea of the coke bottle and stuff make sense i guess, could be worth testing the two on the dyno if the tuner would let me. just for a reference

yeah i assumed that the hp specified by the manufacturer is generally fly wheel power. yeah i was looking at ebay there about similar price but a genuine garret new for a 3071 is about $2200 so still saving a fair bit

none the less the car looks good mate, hurry up and get it together ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 4:07 pm 
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sandy wrote:
yeah thats the dilemma im having, do i sacrifice over all hp and have something thats going to be really punch down load or sacrifice some response for a little extra power haha

thats good idea. ill have to watch the video when i get the chance

the idea of the coke bottle and stuff make sense i guess, could be worth testing the two on the dyno if the tuner would let me. just for a reference

yeah i assumed that the hp specified by the manufacturer is generally fly wheel power. yeah i was looking at ebay there about similar price but a genuine garret new for a 3071 is about $2200 so still saving a fair bit

none the less the car looks good mate, hurry up and get it together ;)


No matter the question the answer is always more horsepower?

I got the big sister GT35R on both Geminis and I'd say for a good mid response and a bit of power the 3071 would be the go.

I've been experimenting with waste gate settings to. That makes for interesting times.
You going internal or external?

On topic I'm led to believe there's progress on this.

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 9:39 am 
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As got more horse power o don't want to have to wait to get to 5000rpm before it comes on boost then the thing take off like a rocket ship haha
The Gt35 is a bit to big for what I'm after hahah

I was thinking internal gated as it's easier to get a manifold made so probably cheaper to! But after reading that often with cheaper turbos they don't put as much effort in to that part of it maybe external will be the way to go and get a brand name waste gat

But on topic id like to hear updates haha

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 Post subject: Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:05 pm 
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Im led to believe your wrong, unless my mrs has gone and started assembling s*#t on it?

Seriously but. Ive done f*#k all except waste hours on mine and get nowhere. Ive got a week off from work coming up around Queens bday, expect movement then.

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