Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
Hey guys!
Me and the old man have just started a Project. So i thought i would make a build thread so we can show everyone how we are going about it and can hopefully help some of you who wish to do a similar conversion in the future!
So here it is. Our 84 TG Gemini.
Its a 2 litre 4 cylinder with a 5 speed sitting behind it right now. But at some stage of its life its had a turbo bolted to the side of it because we have found oil feed and oil return lines all blocked up coming out of the sump. So that pretty cool.
Now the plan for this thing is to get it on the burnout pad. So obviously the 2 litre isn't going to be anywhere near good enough to produce decent wheel spin and smoke etc. So the motor we are deciding to go with is the 253 V8. Yes, I know. Why didn't we go 304 blah blah blah. Well simply because this is a build on a budget, We have bought a motor and its meant to be some special race motor out of an old pines enduro racecar. But who knows? Its was 100 bucks. So we're happy with that! (Im going to pick it up after i finish this post so photos will be up tonight!)
So yesterday arvo i finally managed to convince dad into going ahead with the build. I got hold of a few people and sussed out that cheap "race" motor that i mentioned before and as soon as dad said he wanted it, it was game on.
Straight away we took the bonnet off. Radiator out. Starter wires. Alternator wires. Fuel lines. extractors. and everything else in between. I would get into detail on how to do things and where they are but if you don't know how to do anything that i just mentioned. Then sorry. This conversion is not suited to you. I will get into detail on the more important parts of this build.
Heres a photo of the extractors off. radiator out Etc.
So next things next. We jacked it up so we could get to the rest of the exhaust, Gearbox cross member and the tailshaft!
So once all that was out the motor and gearbox was ready to slide out. Unfortunately we don't own an engine crane. But luckily i have a mate with an endless chain so ill pick that up soon and the motor should be on the concrete tonight!
So with nearly everything at the front of the car done for now we headed for the back. Now for any burnout car you need to have both wheels spinning. That's a given... and what better way to get a diff locked then with a welder. If you have never taken the diff out of a Gemini, Listen in!
So obviously take your wheels off... I really hope no one is surprised by that step!
I found that the easiest way to get the drums off is to bash them with a hammer and loosen them up abit.
PRO-TIP: MAKE SURE YOU RELEASE YOUR HANDBRAKE OR YOUR GOING TO BE BASHING YOUR DRUM IN FOR 5 MINUTES AND LOOKING LIKE A DOUCHEBAG LIKE I DID.
Once there off you need to take the axle bolts off. there's holes in the hub already for you to slot your extension through. Pretty sure it was a 13mm. Don't hold me to that. Once you have the 4 nuts off the axle is ready to come out. Simple as that!
There's a trick to getting the axles out though. easiest way is to get your drum and put it back over your studs backwards. Then put your wheel nuts back on a few threads and use the drum like a slide hammer! Works a treat!
(I didn't take photos of this. My bad)
Axle out^
Once both axle's are out you can get under the car. You will have to unbolt your panhard rod. I found unbolting it from the passenger side of the car and using a cable tie around the fuel lines to hold it up and out of the way worked best. With that out of the way get started on your cover bolts. Undo them and you should be able to lever the cover of the diff with a flat blade. Make sure you've got something to catch the oil!
It should look something like that^
With the cover off there will be 4 bolts. 2 on each side. Simply undo them. pop the caps off and your centre is ready to come out. This bit isn't much fun. You will need to lever the centre out and hit stuff with hammers and yell at it a few times to get it out. but it will eventually come out.
We discovered that our centre is 3.90 Ratio. Not sure if this is standard or not. But its still the ratio we wanted in it anyway so we're happy!
To get a good weld on these you need to have the centre clean and have all the oil off it. Whats the best way?
With fire.
So with that ready to be welded tonight that was ticked off the list.
We obviously want it a little lower so i dropped the shocky's and took the springs out so we can give them abit of a trim up. Happy days!
Well thats most of the boring s*#t over and done with that your probably not interested in. But the next step is a pretty important component of the conversion!
Everyone always asks about the brakes. Will the V8 fit past the booster? No.
Its fairly simple but complicated at the same time. You pretty much need to delete the booster and just run the master cylinder with a custom made actuator. So we've taken ours off and we're hand balling it off to a mate of mine. I will provide as many details as possible when it comes to brakes because its normally what scares people of the V8 conversion in these things!
To take the booster off all you need to do is undo the bolts on top of the pedal box from inside the car and then seperate the master from the booster... Simple.
So that's only day 1 of the build and i think we made pretty good progress considering the amount of gemini parts on the ground!. I will continue to post on this thread as we go and keep everyone updated and give as many tips and tricks as possible!
Me and the old man have just started a Project. So i thought i would make a build thread so we can show everyone how we are going about it and can hopefully help some of you who wish to do a similar conversion in the future!
So here it is. Our 84 TG Gemini.
Its a 2 litre 4 cylinder with a 5 speed sitting behind it right now. But at some stage of its life its had a turbo bolted to the side of it because we have found oil feed and oil return lines all blocked up coming out of the sump. So that pretty cool.
Now the plan for this thing is to get it on the burnout pad. So obviously the 2 litre isn't going to be anywhere near good enough to produce decent wheel spin and smoke etc. So the motor we are deciding to go with is the 253 V8. Yes, I know. Why didn't we go 304 blah blah blah. Well simply because this is a build on a budget, We have bought a motor and its meant to be some special race motor out of an old pines enduro racecar. But who knows? Its was 100 bucks. So we're happy with that! (Im going to pick it up after i finish this post so photos will be up tonight!)
So yesterday arvo i finally managed to convince dad into going ahead with the build. I got hold of a few people and sussed out that cheap "race" motor that i mentioned before and as soon as dad said he wanted it, it was game on.
Straight away we took the bonnet off. Radiator out. Starter wires. Alternator wires. Fuel lines. extractors. and everything else in between. I would get into detail on how to do things and where they are but if you don't know how to do anything that i just mentioned. Then sorry. This conversion is not suited to you. I will get into detail on the more important parts of this build.
Heres a photo of the extractors off. radiator out Etc.
So next things next. We jacked it up so we could get to the rest of the exhaust, Gearbox cross member and the tailshaft!
So once all that was out the motor and gearbox was ready to slide out. Unfortunately we don't own an engine crane. But luckily i have a mate with an endless chain so ill pick that up soon and the motor should be on the concrete tonight!
So with nearly everything at the front of the car done for now we headed for the back. Now for any burnout car you need to have both wheels spinning. That's a given... and what better way to get a diff locked then with a welder. If you have never taken the diff out of a Gemini, Listen in!
So obviously take your wheels off... I really hope no one is surprised by that step!
I found that the easiest way to get the drums off is to bash them with a hammer and loosen them up abit.
PRO-TIP: MAKE SURE YOU RELEASE YOUR HANDBRAKE OR YOUR GOING TO BE BASHING YOUR DRUM IN FOR 5 MINUTES AND LOOKING LIKE A DOUCHEBAG LIKE I DID.
Once there off you need to take the axle bolts off. there's holes in the hub already for you to slot your extension through. Pretty sure it was a 13mm. Don't hold me to that. Once you have the 4 nuts off the axle is ready to come out. Simple as that!
There's a trick to getting the axles out though. easiest way is to get your drum and put it back over your studs backwards. Then put your wheel nuts back on a few threads and use the drum like a slide hammer! Works a treat!
(I didn't take photos of this. My bad)
Axle out^
Once both axle's are out you can get under the car. You will have to unbolt your panhard rod. I found unbolting it from the passenger side of the car and using a cable tie around the fuel lines to hold it up and out of the way worked best. With that out of the way get started on your cover bolts. Undo them and you should be able to lever the cover of the diff with a flat blade. Make sure you've got something to catch the oil!
It should look something like that^
With the cover off there will be 4 bolts. 2 on each side. Simply undo them. pop the caps off and your centre is ready to come out. This bit isn't much fun. You will need to lever the centre out and hit stuff with hammers and yell at it a few times to get it out. but it will eventually come out.
We discovered that our centre is 3.90 Ratio. Not sure if this is standard or not. But its still the ratio we wanted in it anyway so we're happy!
To get a good weld on these you need to have the centre clean and have all the oil off it. Whats the best way?
With fire.
So with that ready to be welded tonight that was ticked off the list.
We obviously want it a little lower so i dropped the shocky's and took the springs out so we can give them abit of a trim up. Happy days!
Well thats most of the boring s*#t over and done with that your probably not interested in. But the next step is a pretty important component of the conversion!
Everyone always asks about the brakes. Will the V8 fit past the booster? No.
Its fairly simple but complicated at the same time. You pretty much need to delete the booster and just run the master cylinder with a custom made actuator. So we've taken ours off and we're hand balling it off to a mate of mine. I will provide as many details as possible when it comes to brakes because its normally what scares people of the V8 conversion in these things!
To take the booster off all you need to do is undo the bolts on top of the pedal box from inside the car and then seperate the master from the booster... Simple.
So that's only day 1 of the build and i think we made pretty good progress considering the amount of gemini parts on the ground!. I will continue to post on this thread as we go and keep everyone updated and give as many tips and tricks as possible!
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- Regular
- Posts: 442
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:57 pm
- Location: Perth
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
Nice write up man ,, love the detail of it
,,, go the skid gem !!!!
You already addressed what would have been my first question , lol why the 253?? ..
Sbc ftw .... Any chances of a blower down the line?
,,, go the skid gem !!!!
You already addressed what would have been my first question , lol why the 253?? ..
Sbc ftw .... Any chances of a blower down the line?
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
Looking forward to updates on this.
- Jonno
- Korean Jesus
- Posts: 2370
- Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:28 pm
- Location: Canberra. Where the Fast Geminis live
- Contact:
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
x2 keep us updatedstock_gem wrote:Looking forward to updates on this.
75 TX Coupe
GemiNats > https://www.facebook.com/GeminiNationals
#TurboFamily #Geminats #Bucketship
YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPKSHb ... akJ04sOYjw
GemiNats > https://www.facebook.com/GeminiNationals
#TurboFamily #Geminats #Bucketship
YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPKSHb ... akJ04sOYjw
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- Regular
- Posts: 442
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:57 pm
- Location: Perth
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
Jonno wrote:x2 keep us updatedstock_gem wrote:Looking forward to updates on this.
Whoa omg ozgem regulars interested in v8 conversions!! lol
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
He's written it well.
And he set a diff centre on fire.
And he set a diff centre on fire.
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- Regular
- Posts: 442
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:57 pm
- Location: Perth
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
Lol Soo truestock_gem wrote:He's written it well.
And he set a diff centre on fire.
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
Wow... It's definately a good feeling knowing that there is long time members interested in our build!Jonno wrote:x2 keep us updatedstock_gem wrote:Looking forward to updates on this.
Just finished of day 2 so im about to start a new post.
Stay tuned!
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
Day 2. Done and dusted...
If you would like to know how my day went then ill put it into perspective for you...
Get every single swear word in the English language, Repeat each word 3 times and cram it all into one sentence.
Long story short. No motor tonight
I traveled 100kms to pick it up only to get there and soon told that it was already sold, Even after organising it with the bloke the night before. Oh well... Bigger and better things to come. Maybe... Probably not.
I also dropped the diff of to get welded in the morning, So that's good yeah? Wrong. Picked the very same open centre up that afternoon. But scored a welder to weld it my self!
So i haven't had the best day. Especially since i was itching to get stuck into the Gemini all day and didn't get back till after 7pm. But we wasted no time!
See this photo? Looks completely normal right.
Wrong again.
We are welding the diff tomorrow and we need the car rolling to get the motor and box out. So we smashed the axles in with out the centre in the diff.. Threw 2 bolts on each axle so there not very comfy in there. Wheel and 2 wheel studs. Done.
Oh yeah. we didn't worry to much about springs and shocks. She'll be right!
Don't mind my Chinese safety boots either.
With the car now off the jack stands and squatting its ass on the ground. It was free to roll around. We got stuck into mounting the endless chain. Safely of course...
Ignore the slippers... there plenty safe.
with that done there was nothing else to do except start ripping her out...
Once the motor was out we soon realised it was a G161... so not the motor we thought. But luckily for us it has a brand new head gasket. good clutch etc. we put the shifter in the gearbox to confirm it was 5 speed and sure enough it was. No slop in the box so we are laughing.
So a mate of mine who is absolutely nuts for Gemini's has offered a swap we cant resist. We are going to get 2 sets of mags, an auto gearbox cross member(this is good because it bolts straight up to a trimatic) We also get an auto tailshaft yolk, also very important, And the one thing that will save us alot of trouble is a WB V8 radiator modified to suit Gemini! Cant get much better then that!
Now im not sure if we needed to take the fan thingy(big black box thing) out or not but we did, And here's how to do it for all you people struggling out there!
We figured out that it looked like a dash out and job to take it off properly. But that doesn't sound like much fun.
What i did was grab a flat blade screwdriver and wedged it in between the plastic and the firewall with the assistance of a hammer then levered it out. It eventually snaps and pretty much falls out... Job done!
And that's pretty much all we did for day 2 except a few hoses and wires i've trimmed back. nothing special.
Tomorrow we're going to weld the diff and have it all put back together and rolling and then we might do something fancy with the engine bay. Depends how bored we get and how many beers we sink!
If you would like to know how my day went then ill put it into perspective for you...
Get every single swear word in the English language, Repeat each word 3 times and cram it all into one sentence.
Long story short. No motor tonight
I traveled 100kms to pick it up only to get there and soon told that it was already sold, Even after organising it with the bloke the night before. Oh well... Bigger and better things to come. Maybe... Probably not.
I also dropped the diff of to get welded in the morning, So that's good yeah? Wrong. Picked the very same open centre up that afternoon. But scored a welder to weld it my self!
So i haven't had the best day. Especially since i was itching to get stuck into the Gemini all day and didn't get back till after 7pm. But we wasted no time!
See this photo? Looks completely normal right.
Wrong again.
We are welding the diff tomorrow and we need the car rolling to get the motor and box out. So we smashed the axles in with out the centre in the diff.. Threw 2 bolts on each axle so there not very comfy in there. Wheel and 2 wheel studs. Done.
Oh yeah. we didn't worry to much about springs and shocks. She'll be right!
Don't mind my Chinese safety boots either.
With the car now off the jack stands and squatting its ass on the ground. It was free to roll around. We got stuck into mounting the endless chain. Safely of course...
Ignore the slippers... there plenty safe.
with that done there was nothing else to do except start ripping her out...
Once the motor was out we soon realised it was a G161... so not the motor we thought. But luckily for us it has a brand new head gasket. good clutch etc. we put the shifter in the gearbox to confirm it was 5 speed and sure enough it was. No slop in the box so we are laughing.
So a mate of mine who is absolutely nuts for Gemini's has offered a swap we cant resist. We are going to get 2 sets of mags, an auto gearbox cross member(this is good because it bolts straight up to a trimatic) We also get an auto tailshaft yolk, also very important, And the one thing that will save us alot of trouble is a WB V8 radiator modified to suit Gemini! Cant get much better then that!
Now im not sure if we needed to take the fan thingy(big black box thing) out or not but we did, And here's how to do it for all you people struggling out there!
We figured out that it looked like a dash out and job to take it off properly. But that doesn't sound like much fun.
What i did was grab a flat blade screwdriver and wedged it in between the plastic and the firewall with the assistance of a hammer then levered it out. It eventually snaps and pretty much falls out... Job done!
And that's pretty much all we did for day 2 except a few hoses and wires i've trimmed back. nothing special.
Tomorrow we're going to weld the diff and have it all put back together and rolling and then we might do something fancy with the engine bay. Depends how bored we get and how many beers we sink!
- Jonno
- Korean Jesus
- Posts: 2370
- Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 5:28 pm
- Location: Canberra. Where the Fast Geminis live
- Contact:
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
I like beer.
I like a good story/write up.
and I wear slippers.
I like a good story/write up.
and I wear slippers.
75 TX Coupe
GemiNats > https://www.facebook.com/GeminiNationals
#TurboFamily #Geminats #Bucketship
YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPKSHb ... akJ04sOYjw
GemiNats > https://www.facebook.com/GeminiNationals
#TurboFamily #Geminats #Bucketship
YT: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPKSHb ... akJ04sOYjw
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
Its day 3.
And we haven't done anything. I just woke up from a nap on the couch. and so did dad...
Motivation is low after such a big night last night but we will push on!
All we need to do is have the back end put back together and be able to actually push it out of the shed. (Its getting stuck halfway out, i think that's awesome!)
Then we'll need to load all the old motor and all its bits and pieces onto the trailer and get it ready to leave tomorrow morning
Also someone i have to mention in this build is my Dads partner Erin! With out her we really wouldn't be doing this. She's helping out with everything from buying us the parts we need to getting us beers and smokes and even though its only been 2 days in the shed. It's still a lot to put up with when she's got 3 other kids running around while we're getting dirty in the shed! So a big thanks to Erin!
Anyway. We better get to it! See you all at some ridiculous hour in the morning when i put the next post up!
And we haven't done anything. I just woke up from a nap on the couch. and so did dad...
Motivation is low after such a big night last night but we will push on!
All we need to do is have the back end put back together and be able to actually push it out of the shed. (Its getting stuck halfway out, i think that's awesome!)
Then we'll need to load all the old motor and all its bits and pieces onto the trailer and get it ready to leave tomorrow morning
Also someone i have to mention in this build is my Dads partner Erin! With out her we really wouldn't be doing this. She's helping out with everything from buying us the parts we need to getting us beers and smokes and even though its only been 2 days in the shed. It's still a lot to put up with when she's got 3 other kids running around while we're getting dirty in the shed! So a big thanks to Erin!
Anyway. We better get to it! See you all at some ridiculous hour in the morning when i put the next post up!
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
Very interesting build id like to see how you do it as im looking at the same conversion
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
Sorry guys. The last few days I've been pretty slack... The build has kind of slowed down till we get our hands on a motor and box so we can start test fitting etc. But anyway, Ill show you what we've been up to!
We went down and bought a few welding rods and got stuck into the diff so we could put it all together and get it back out of the shed!
I thought shorts and thongs where a good idea... Oh and we didn't have a welding mask so i used 2 pairs of sunnies!
we got it all welded up and smashed it all back together. we trimmed 3 coils of the stock springs to see how it sat, That didn't go as planned.
That's the difference in springs^
And that's how it sat... FFS. Even higher then before. We are still trying to figure out what happened but we're thinking the shocks are siezed or something. Tonight's job is to rip them out and see what's going on.
anyway, Last night after we got the Gemini out of the shed we backed the trailer in and loaded the old G161 and all the other bits and pieces up so we could head over to Mount Gambier and swap them for some bits that we need to help us with the conversion!
We had to meet up with Shane. The owner of MRGEM. The TG with an LS1 crammed into it. That thing is going to be absolutely insane!
Check out his build!
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5482
We left there and met up with a mate of mine to pick up a Mr. Gasket ratchet shifter. (I don't have any photos of it yet but its pretty cool) We want to run a ratchet shifter to make it easier on fitting the gearbox because we will have a cable and not shifter linkages.
We headed for home and it was 2:30 in the morning before we arrived so we parked up and passed out.It was a big day and we had pretty much just had enough...
Today has been slow going. Dad has been cleaning the shed and sorting through and organising all of our parts aswell as making it kind of respectable and easier to work in while I've been napping on the couch! Thanks dad!
We scored some calibra mags and some 17's aswell for the motor so we're pretty happy! As well as a V8 radiator to suit Gem!
So that's really all that has been done in the last few days. Time to push the snotta back into our nice clean shed and try and figure out whats wrong with this back end so we can bring it back down to earth with the rest of us!
And i just wanted to show you this photo to prove a point. This is our shed. This is what were working with. We have no fancy toolbox's or jacks or anything for that matter.(we have to use assorted bricks and different bits and pieces to get the car high enough for anything, so i kind of wish we did have fancy jacks!) But just remember that you don't need much to build something cool. A bit of know how and a small toolbox and you can build anything! So dont think twice about doing something. If you have an awesome idea for a car and you think you don't have the equiptment to do it. Your wrong! Just have ago!
We went down and bought a few welding rods and got stuck into the diff so we could put it all together and get it back out of the shed!
I thought shorts and thongs where a good idea... Oh and we didn't have a welding mask so i used 2 pairs of sunnies!
we got it all welded up and smashed it all back together. we trimmed 3 coils of the stock springs to see how it sat, That didn't go as planned.
That's the difference in springs^
And that's how it sat... FFS. Even higher then before. We are still trying to figure out what happened but we're thinking the shocks are siezed or something. Tonight's job is to rip them out and see what's going on.
anyway, Last night after we got the Gemini out of the shed we backed the trailer in and loaded the old G161 and all the other bits and pieces up so we could head over to Mount Gambier and swap them for some bits that we need to help us with the conversion!
We had to meet up with Shane. The owner of MRGEM. The TG with an LS1 crammed into it. That thing is going to be absolutely insane!
Check out his build!
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5482
We left there and met up with a mate of mine to pick up a Mr. Gasket ratchet shifter. (I don't have any photos of it yet but its pretty cool) We want to run a ratchet shifter to make it easier on fitting the gearbox because we will have a cable and not shifter linkages.
We headed for home and it was 2:30 in the morning before we arrived so we parked up and passed out.It was a big day and we had pretty much just had enough...
Today has been slow going. Dad has been cleaning the shed and sorting through and organising all of our parts aswell as making it kind of respectable and easier to work in while I've been napping on the couch! Thanks dad!
We scored some calibra mags and some 17's aswell for the motor so we're pretty happy! As well as a V8 radiator to suit Gem!
So that's really all that has been done in the last few days. Time to push the snotta back into our nice clean shed and try and figure out whats wrong with this back end so we can bring it back down to earth with the rest of us!
And i just wanted to show you this photo to prove a point. This is our shed. This is what were working with. We have no fancy toolbox's or jacks or anything for that matter.(we have to use assorted bricks and different bits and pieces to get the car high enough for anything, so i kind of wish we did have fancy jacks!) But just remember that you don't need much to build something cool. A bit of know how and a small toolbox and you can build anything! So dont think twice about doing something. If you have an awesome idea for a car and you think you don't have the equiptment to do it. Your wrong! Just have ago!
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
I wish I had the motivation to post pictures and words strung together to make sentences after spending hours, even all day on my car.
The way that pile of front end parts is arranged has given me an idea, when I get a mad ass shed, I'm going to mount a TG front end like that on the wall like an animal's head.
The way that pile of front end parts is arranged has given me an idea, when I get a mad ass shed, I'm going to mount a TG front end like that on the wall like an animal's head.
Re: Project Gemini. Putting a 253 into a TG Gemini.
Motivation has been low the last few days but im loving the feedback from you guys so that's what helps me alongstock_gem wrote:I wish I had the motivation to post pictures and words strung together to make sentences after spending hours, even all day on my car.
The way that pile of front end parts is arranged has given me an idea, when I get a mad ass shed, I'm going to mount a TG front end like that on the wall like an animal's head.
Im heading back home for a week so there wont be to much happening in the next week or so. But theres no rush