gemini increased steering angle

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archangel62
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Post by archangel62 »

Castor
A couple of guys have done the "castor mod" - grinding away at some components and swapping front upper arms left-right to get a big castor (and therefore "active camber") increase. Alternatively, castor can be gained with a custom lower control arm, or one in which the arm or the lower balljoint are moved forward, although this would be difficult to do without going a whole custom lower arm. That would be damn cool though.

Lower
A guy called Kingsley did a lot of work developing a revised front suspension setup, which utilises the same basic design but offset, allowing the car to sit much lower without affecting the front suspension geometry, thus not "sitting on bumpstops" etc. The aim is to make this legal on an individual approval basis, until if possible, it is recognised and can be sold as a legal kit. This is my understanding of it anyway.

Camber
There's an easy trick for increased camber, beyond stock, and that is to remove the upper balljoint bolts with that corner car jacked up and wheel removed, slide the upper balljoint as far up the arm as possible/desired, and drilling out the upper bolt holes to line up, before bolting it in again in the desired location and doing the bolts up nice and tight. There is a certain amount of adjustment in this way as standard, so the concept of the bolts' torque holding the balljoint in adjustment is nothing new, therefore nothing out of the stock suspension's design. This is a very doable at home trick, all you need is a decent quality 10mm drill bit, a drill, basic tools and some time. Apparently some people have been able to find slotted upper balljoints, which allow similar adjustment without modifying the upper arm, but in my opinion the price offsets the advantage.

Other people have been able to modify the lower control arm mounts at the body, by drilling out the standard mount holes, and welding thick, high tensile washers (sorry don't know technical term lol) over them to maintain structural rigidity. The goal of this is to move the lower arm outwards, thus increasing camber with a greater trackwidth increase than moving the upper mount inwards (which does nonetheless increase trackwidth but not as much, and is a little limited in maximum camber).

Springrates
Apart from that, there are plenty of neat spring tricks, for instance, it's rumoured Commodore rear springs can be cut and put into the back of a Gemini (cut slowly to avoid heat damage), and apparently Kingswood front springs can swap with Gemini fronts if cut. Both would increase springrate. This is as a cheaper alternative to ordered or custom aftermarket performance springs.

Bushes and tyre profile
Nolathane or other polyurethane bushes are a big benefit, I've heard, and it makes sense. Also, lower profile tyres theoretically increase the "accuracy" and effectiveness of your suspension however many of the more experienced Gemini racers amongst us swear by higher profile semi-slicks, most of which have very rigid sidewalls anyway.

IRS
There are some IRS conversions, but don't go there. Plus, I've been told the Bellett is very similar to a Gemini, has IRS, and doesn't handle as good.

Steering lock
That should give you a good idea of what's going around, as far as I'm aware noone's actually tinkered with castor or steering lock much yet, although my mate thinks the "lock spacer" idea that KE (corolla) drivers use to increase steering lock should work on a Gemini, as the steering rack is a similar basic design, but obviously KE lock spacers probably wouldn't fit because they'd have different threads, sizes etc. Someone should try to get some made up.
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insane gemini
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Post by insane gemini »

i have been looking in to making custom lower arms i am a welder and can make any thing out of metal. it has low king springs in it already they just might need a chop. i will change the bushes to. thanks for the insight
archangel62
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Post by archangel62 »

MORE STEERING LOCK:
http://www.ozgemini.com/forums/non-tech ... 87&start=0

I'm trying to get lock spacers made up, it's that or possibly lathe the ends of the rack itself down. More steering lock is achievable if you run low offset wheels and grind down the stoppers on the lower control arms where the hub's lock stoppers hit. The lock stoppers on the hub are a secondary measure, the rack will limit lock before these will, so for that we need lock spacers! Get on it!
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archangel62
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Post by archangel62 »

Update.

I have successfully gained extra steering lock in my drift Gemini. Here's how:

http://www.ozgemini.com/forums/non-tech ... 074#389074
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Lil Willsy
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Post by Lil Willsy »

archangel62 wrote: Camber
There's an easy trick for increased camber, beyond stock, and that is to remove the upper balljoint bolts with that corner car jacked up and wheel removed, slide the upper balljoint as far up the arm as possible/desired, and drilling out the upper bolt holes to line up, before bolting it in again in the desired location and doing the bolts up nice and tight. There is a certain amount of adjustment in this way as standard, so the concept of the bolts' torque holding the balljoint in adjustment is nothing new, therefore nothing out of the stock suspension's design. This is a very doable at home trick, all you need is a decent quality 10mm drill bit, a drill, basic tools and some time.
ORRR, you could just run PRE rts lower control arms, if you get a TE lca and a TX lca, you will see a conciderable difference, in the shape, one has a bend, one is almost straight, hence why TX's dropped on their nut neg out alot!
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archangel62
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Post by archangel62 »

That might pend further investigation, not sure if it's pre-RTS, or TX only, or *early* TX only. I suspect the latter. Pretty sure mid-TX on ran the later style LCA, while RTS only kicked in with amended springs/swaybars/etc with the TD.

Valid point, but I'd just drill out the upper balljoint mount. Easy done, readily available (not rare like early TX LCAs), and won't stuff with your ride height. I believe going to an early TX suspension setup, with the same springs, will drop your car on its guts (or raise it loads, I forget which).
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Lil Willsy
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Post by Lil Willsy »

no its pre rts, when rts was introduced, the gemometry in theory was to keep the same gemometry at any height, so the bend arm was introduced.

if you lower an rts car they neg out but only ever so minutely

anything prior to td is pre rts and has almost perfectly straight lca's

i say this because my old mans TC coupe was pre rts and also has the same control arms as the TX

and the only difference in springs is that with the TD lcas, you get the superlows to goto a certain height for instance, while if you put the same superlows in a tx they act as "tx lows" as listed in the kingsprings listing, because they are the same part number/spring

i put a set of TX lca's in my td as i was looking for a touch more camber to aid in hard cornering...
Last edited by Lil Willsy on Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
TD. daily.
TE 2dr
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I Don't Like Hills...
Gene FJ20DEBT
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Post by Gene FJ20DEBT »

sweet. have a set on the shelf.. might stick them in the poo :D
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