The Question FINALY answered - VL centers

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Crumz
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Post by Crumz »

Wouldn't you just use a two peice shaft that has the middle rubber mount in the same spot as the gem torque tube rubber?
I've only come in to this thread from this page, so I might be on the wrong subject....
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Post by Gene FJ20DEBT »

thats not gonna do anythgin to locat the diff itself
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Post by Rodeobob »

Gene FJ20DET wrote:i would want some thing a little more "high tech" then that.

the gemini diff gets its movment from teh torque tube rubber (hence why they always are braking) this would be to bulky and git in the way of the tail shaft.. as would anythign done above the tail shaft...
Yeah but im thinking to a certain extent that your missing the point gene.

I thought you were looking for a simple similar setup to what the gemini had.
Im working and thinking and you bagging.

But then your looking for a gemini torque tube so you can take it too the diff shop/engineer to see if he can make it fit on your hilux diff. But you dont want the std gemini mount???

Work with me.

I dont see why hi tech is the answer. is that for bling factor??
I would think simple and effective would be the way to go.

Depending on what you did above the tailshaft would dictate if it got in the way or not.
But then what you did with the tailshaft would dictate what clearance issues you had too.
The std setup is a true torque tube. The angle of the shaft insid is dictated and not alterable.
But if your not using the std torque tube the angle is yours to set.
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Cheers. Bob.
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Post by Gene FJ20DEBT »

Rodeobob wrote:
But then your looking for a gemini torque tube so you can take it too the diff shop/engineer to see if he can make it fit on your hilux diff. But you dont want the std gemini mount???
got nothign against the gemini mount, but its pointless using it if your not using the torque tube, as it will get in the way.. to send a tail shaft of the front of a replacment diff up the tunnel dosnt leave any room above the tail saft at all for anythign ... if has to be somethign below the tail shaft.. hop under and have a look, as there isnt any room to do somethign like that... .
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Post by Rodeobob »

Why not a 3 link???? thats effectively what a torque tube is any way. Theres no need for it to be fixed to the diff and a rigid part of the structure.
Its can piviot at the diff and that would take stress off the forward mounting point. Its only there to locate instead of mount and that wouldnt take up as much room.
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The black dots at the rear are conventional bolt thru bush mounts. Bush eyes in the ends of the arms and bolts thru the bracket on the diff.

The dot at the front is a conventional ball joint or tie rod end. Mounted whichever way is easiest. Id say mount the ball joint to the floor on a reinforced plate in the same spot as the piviot point for the old torque tube mount. And then have the tapered hole in the plate that connects the arms. The balljoint will piviot on all axis'.

The only trouble i can see would be floor clearance. It needs to be mounted as high as possible/practical. If its mounts too low it wont brace enough to hold the pinion angle and it will rip the diff out from under the car when it tries to twist up.
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Post by Bugle »

How about the current Mustang setup.. Just has a little arm on top of the diff housing. Would have to make a mount on the floorpan for it.
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Post by Rodeobob »

I forgot to mention. You could plate the front 1/3 and bolt the centre bearing to that. The tailshaft is somethin i would chat to an expert about, RE vibration and all that.

For the rear mount you could use rose joints. I dont see that you would have to as it only has to piviot one way. Rose joints and the uni would make it harsh, especialy if you have a uni up the front.

There might be a possible alternative to using somthing as harsh as a ball joint or rod end at the front. Cna anyone think of something???

If you go back and look at the 4x4 picture, i rekon they have made that to stop the springs winding up under acceleration/traction. The rod that pokes thre the piviot would be a sliding coupling to allow for the up down movment. Its to stop the diff twisting. You dont need to do that in the gemini, its got lower arms (the lowerhalf of the yellow frame) already. All you need is the top part. If it piviots at the front in both directions theres no need for two arms you could have one.

Cheers. Bob.
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Post by Gene FJ20DEBT »

Rodeobob wrote:Why not a 3 link???? thats effectively what a torque tube is any way. Theres no need for it to be fixed to the diff and a rigid part of the structure.
Its can piviot at the diff and that would take stress off the forward mounting point. Its only there to locate instead of mount and that wouldnt take up as much room.
Image

The black dots at the rear are conventional bolt thru bush mounts. Bush eyes in the ends of the arms and bolts thru the bracket on the diff.

The dot at the front is a conventional ball joint or tie rod end. Mounted whichever way is easiest. Id say mount the ball joint to the floor on a reinforced plate in the same spot as the piviot point for the old torque tube mount. And then have the tapered hole in the plate that connects the arms. The balljoint will piviot on all axis'.

The only trouble i can see would be floor clearance. It needs to be mounted as high as possible/practical. If its mounts too low it wont brace enough to hold the pinion angle and it will rip the diff out from under the car when it tries to twist up.
that is still a ladar bar...
the torque tube itself is a ladar bar, so anythign like it wont be legal. only reason it is legal is cos it was passed from factory i guess.
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Post by Gene FJ20DEBT »

Bugle wrote:How about the current Mustang setup.. Just has a little arm on top of the diff housing. Would have to make a mount on the floorpan for it.
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this would be the same deal as the macdonald track bar bust central. iv seen it done on alot of 4x4's.. u woudl have to cut up into the flor a little to get clearance, but it would be alot better seen a its central..
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Post by Rodeobob »

But that one above is the same thing as the one i put up, mines just longer.

Its not a ladder bar. A ladder bar is a structure that doesnt allow your pinion angle to alter. The stock gemini tube isnt a ladder bar. Its a torque tube.
Gene, Your saying you want to use it then its illegal to use it if youve modded the car because its a ladder bar. I think you should go and read some books about suspension set ups.

One arm or two on the top of a diff, it makes no difference if you have a panhard rod or a watts link. Stick your nose under an XF era falcon/fairlane/ltd. They only have one top arm on the RHS, nothing on the left. They got a watts link so its not needed. You only need the one top arm to keep your pinion angle under control. The watts link stops the sideways movement.

It would actually be a four link thats as opposed to the more common 5 link setup.

Its one top arm pivioted at both ends, it has to be fixed at the diff to be a ladder bar.

If you took the bottom fixing point out of the mcdonald bros arm it wouldnt be a ladder bar either.

Bob
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Post by Gene FJ20DEBT »

Rodeobob wrote:But that one above is the same thing as the one i put up, mines just longer.

i never said it wasnt... i said that being central on a gemini u wont have room unless u cut intot he floor.. which i dont wanna do..

Its not a ladder bar. A ladder bar is a structure that doesnt allow your pinion angle to alter.

ladar bar your pinion angle does change.. just look at the pic i posted b4.. as the diff moves the angle changes alot, where as the 4 link keeps the angle more constant

Image


The stock gemini tube isnt a ladder bar. Its a torque tube.

:roll: the way it acts and hold/possitions the diff is in the same way the single mac donnald trackbar works

Gene, Your saying you want to use it then its illegal to use it if youve modded the car because its a ladder bar. I think you should go and read some books about suspension set ups.

that makes no sense..... i wanna use somethign legal.. simple.. ladar bar is not so im not gonna use it

One arm or two on the top of a diff, it makes no difference if you have a panhard rod or a watts link.

in a larar bar set up yes,.. i know this..

Stick your nose under an XF era falcon/fairlane/ltd. They only have one top arm on the RHS, nothing on the left. They got a watts link so its not needed. You only need the one top arm to keep your pinion angle under control. The watts link stops the sideways movement.

i already know this.. but after market style ladar bar is not legal.. so why keep pushig the idea?

It would actually be a four link thats as opposed to the more common 5 link setup.

Its one top arm pivioted at both ends, it has to be fixed at the diff to be a ladder bar.

exactly, u just keep repeating what we already know

If you took the bottom fixing point out of the mcdonald bros arm it wouldnt be a ladder bar either.

exactly.. but then where it mounts to the car would be to low hence having to cut up into the car... plus u would need (should have) 2, not just the one. unless off cause u use the watts link, which just means more fabrication.. so if u have cut the floor to fit in the single arm at a suitable angle then u midas well do 2 of them


Bob

gene
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Post by Gene FJ20DEBT »

totaly random, but i checked out barbi on the weekend, and its runing a 9" with 2 of the mac donnals links :P
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Post by PSI-26L »

Gene FJ20DET wrote:totaly random, but i checked out barbi on the weekend, and its runing a 9" with 2 of the mac donnals links :P
How is it set up?

Anything similar to mine?
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Post by Gene FJ20DEBT »

exactly this kit...

but there runining 2 arms. one on each side of the diff center, instead of just the single one on the passangers side... so *basicly* the same as yours, except it has rose joints instead of the pin and bush like yours.. but cos there runing 2 arms/links it will act in the same way as the pin and bush (like yours)... yours has 1 or 2 new links????

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http://www.mcdonaldbrosracing.com.au/geminicontrol.html
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Post by PSI-26L »

yeh 2 arms, 1 either side of the diff centre which bolt up to a crossmember mounting where the torque tube originally does aswell as mounting to the outer control arms. As you said it is the same as that setup but different components have been used.
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