What Distributor Is This??

Technical Disscusion Forum will be used for in depth threads that are moved here by a mod/admin member.... everyone is welcome to add their input, but only on topic replys
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Rodeobob
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Post by Rodeobob »

Poida wrote:The RB type I have shown does not need an external module though. It's all self contained.
Would that mean that RB's used both types????

Can you research that in your library???

Bob.
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Crumz
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Post by Crumz »

Haha Poida f*#cked up.
There I've said it and no one else needs to.
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macca_loto
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Post by macca_loto »

hey shano you have the late g200 jackaroo dizzy. I have the exact same one sitting in the shed. Anyone got spare internals for these. Mine wont spark at all!

CHRIS...
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Post by ATG23Q »

Well this thread turned out to be very informative.

Thanks for the help guys, its appreciated.

Now, which do you think would be better off in a worked G200? Standard dizzy with RB internals or the one this thread is about?

Cheers
F3ARED
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Post by F3ARED »

Read Bobs post. If its the same as a 4ZB1/D1/C1, go looking for a Shuttle or a Piazza/Jackaroo.

What im confused about is the dizzy shaft. I *know* the shaft is different [4Z runs off the cam, G series is off the crank isnt it?], so how the hell did they get it into the Gem housing? Is the shaft the same diametre?

Nick-
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macca_loto
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Post by macca_loto »

GeminiCoupe wrote:Read Bobs post. If its the same as a 4ZB1/D1/C1, go looking for a Shuttle or a Piazza/Jackaroo.

What im confused about is the dizzy shaft. I *know* the shaft is different [4Z runs off the cam, G series is off the crank isnt it?], so how the hell did they get it into the Gem housing? Is the shaft the same diametre?

Nick-
Nick its only an internals swap with all the electrical s*#t over into the gem housing.
Shano go with msd and use a standard points dizzy to trigger it way better all together. Then use a hall effect sensor to trigger it for more reliability!

CHRIS...
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

Na Bob, the RB only used the one in the images I posted.

Image
F3ARED
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Post by F3ARED »

Chris,

I figured itd be an internals swap, i was just wondering if the actual shaft was the same size as the G series so it fits through the centre of the the new internals. Obviously it does if its in there.

Nick-
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

Na Nick, just the internals interchange.

The Nippon Denso dissy is smart thinking. Like modular design.

The base plate and the upper shafts are all interchangable. If you check and see they all use the exact same rotor button so that means the diameter of the base and the diameter of the shaft is the same in all of them. The base plate is held in by the two cap clip brackets. Lift it out and it has a ball bearing mounted inner moving plate with the same outer race plate as all of the Nippon Denso distributors using that same rotor button. The arrangement of punched holes in the inner plate differ to suit the different electrical hardware. All the signal coils and ignitor module components are fixed to this plate. The reluctor pole piece is on the shaft that mounts the rotor button.
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Crumz
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Post by Crumz »

Guys, this is a great thread. Lets keep it on topic and we can get a decent electronic ignition write up for the technical forums.
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dyno
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Post by dyno »

hey guys, ok i've read everyones replies but still a bit shadey on somethings. here's my situation, i've put a 4ZD1 in my TG gemini but i can't get it to run because i'll get spark and then stop sparking from the coil. i've taken out the ballast resistor because it's no longer points dizzy. i've got the igintion wire to the positive side of the coil (i'm using a NEW bosch MEC 717 coil) then the negative side of the coil to the dizzy (dizzy wire colour full black). now i've also got another wire from the dizzy black/orange which is going to the poisitive side of the coil.

pretty much like this:
Image

and my dizzy looks like this:
Image

now the only thing i can think of now is if i'm surpose to use the ballast resistor and wire it like this:
Image

i've spent 2 full weeks on this problem and can't work it out. so if u have any ideas it'll be a big help

Sean
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

Double check your post. That last image is incomplete and can't be viewed.

I wrote the post on how to wire up an RB dissy.

Your coil is an MEC717, now does on the package that it say it needs a ballast resistor with that coil? The ballast resistor is relative to the coil, NOT the type of distributor. You need to be sure of that or it will cook the coil if you don't run a resistor when you should.

Your distributor has two wires coming from it. One is black, the other black with an orange trace. The black wire goes to the coil (-) neg terminal. The black/orange wire goes to the(+) pos coil terminal.

Image

The above image is for a non resisted coil.

Normally, the ignition switch wire will go to one side of the ballast resistor and the coil (+) wire is connected to the opposite ballast resistor terminal. If you no longer use a ballast resistor, connect the ignition switch wire that used to connect at the ballast resistor directly to the coil (+).
dyno
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Post by dyno »

the coil package doesn't say weather or not it needs a ballast resistor. i waz sure the ballastor resistor is for the points in the dizzy so there isn't tooo much current so they don't weld together.

i went to pick-a-part today and found 2 jackaroo's a 84 and a 86. now both had the motors gone but i notice on the 84 it had the same brackets to hold the coil as i do (someone had already taken the coil), where as the 86 had an oil fill type coil. now the 84 had a ballast resistor and the 87 didn't. now after seeing that i'm wondering if i should wire the dizzy/coil like this:

Image

i've wired it up as u said Poida and it'll work for a bit then stop.
dyno
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Post by dyno »

found the porblem, wrong coil. got a coil off a 87 jackroo, all good now
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

The ballast resister is relevant to the COIL not the points.

TX-TG Gemini coils use a ballast resistor so no matter what you use to replace the points it still needs a ballast resister if you use an original coil. RB Gemini didn't have an external ballast resister and from what I see, there is only one supply wire to the (+) terminal on the coil so, it must be 12 volts, ie non resisted wiring.

Wire the dissy as per the diagrams.


Using a coil that should have a ballast resistor:

Image



Using a coil that should not have a ballast resistor:

Image



Back to resisted wiring:
What was the coil like that was on the Jackaroo? Was there a ballast resister at all? In it's original application, did it have two wires going from the main wiring loom to the (+) terminal of the coil? Have alook at a Holden EH, HT, HQ, LJ Torana, LX Torana... in fact EVERY Holden built from EH in 1964 to the HZ uses a two wire resisted coil system. They ALL have a ballast resistor, but, you won't see it.

There are two wires in the loom supplying voltage to the coil. One is a standard copper wire and it supplies 12 volts ONLY while the ignition switch is in the START position. The second wire is diffferent, it's a nickel wire and it fells a bit springy. It is a resisted wire and it supplies about 7-8 volts to the coil. That wire is the supply wire used when the switch is in the ON position.

Holden chose this two wire method instead of using a ceramic type ballast resistor as they used in the RWD Gemini.

Just because the coil wiring in a vehicle doesn't seem at first glance to be running a resistor, you have to double check the wiring leading to the coil (+) terminal.
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