Rodeo Rebuild

[Josh]

Pics and progress updates:

http://www.ozgemini.com/forums/non-tech ... hp?t=16417







Well the RODEO rebuild begins

The rodeo motor is on the engine stand after much thinking about how to get the big bolt out of the harmonic balancer I ended up making a tool. What I really needed was an air compressor and a rattle gun but I didn’t have access to this and I really wanted to get the project under way.

So far the head has been removed
The harmonic balancer removed
Timing case removed
Inlet manifold removed and cleaned many times
Throttle body removed and cleaned lots and lots as well
Injectors removed and cleaned
Then we removed the flywheel prior to putting it up on the engine stand
Cleaned the block
Removed the huge oil pump these things have and checked it for wear
Cleaned the sump

Things I still have to do: (haha)

Well where do I start...

* The pistons and rods have to be removed
* The crank has to be checked and linished, oil galleries opened up, balanced, and a slight clean up + polish (maybe a crack test) Also has to be checked for straightness.
* Order the pistons and rings
* Resize the rods - convert to full floating if they arn't already
* Get the block decked and checked
* Make the turbo manifold
* Find a turbo hopefully with some help from this site
* Decide on EMS
* Fuel pump and surge tank
* Re configure water cooling (weld up any parts I don’t need)

I think I'm going to go down the path of just getting some good cast pistons to start off with until we have this baby up and running. Then I'll go down the path of forgies and maybe another set of I beam rods. I'm hoping the cast pistons will handle around 6 - 8 pound of daily driving and maybe 12psi of track work.


Ok now time for some of my questions:

What turbo should I use on this thing?

I don’t know much about turbo’s. What I do know is that this engine is 2.6L I know that a turbo needs and oil supply. I don’t know if the turbo for this engine should be water cooled? And I do know that I want to run around 6 - 8 psi and 12psi sometimes. I do have a budget so I'm looking at something around the $800 mark or less. I also know that I am personally making the turbo manifold for this engine. Also I want the boost to come on at around 3000rpm. As far as I know from being in other 2.6L rodeo engines these things don’t rev anywhere near the same as the worked G180 I have now. They have almost a 4" stroke and that’s almost mirrored to the bore size as well.

What pistons can I get away with?

Like I said before is there any good pistons out there that will be fine to handle these rather small boost figures I am looking at running? Maybe some good ACL? or Hypatec's? I'm not sure and hopefully someone can shed some light on this subject?

Is that ment to be a stud in picture #1?

Rodeo_Bob - Do you know if the water pump is suppose to have a stud where it is in picture number 1? Or has someone previously fitted it?

Sump

I want to keep the original alloy sump
1) Because it looks very cool
2) Because it's light

I want to modify the front gemini cross member instead of changing the sump. I am a fabricator by trade so I am quietly confident that I can keep it’s structural strength whist at the same time keep it's job to cradle the rodeo donk. Are there any objections to doing this?

Cooler

Well I'm still keen on the 8" or 10" PWR barrel cooler for this setup. Keep that in mind when I'm talking about cast pistons. Hopefully the consistent cooled - boosted air will add to this setups reliability.

I think that’s all for now kiddies

I'll keep you all up to date and please keep this thread to topic

Thanks in advance

Josh

[F3ARED]

Hyper pistons are apparently WORSE then standard casts. The way they are produced makes the ring lands very very weak. Like i said, APPARENTLY. Get some standard ACL casts and get them ceramic coated. If the engine is tuned properly you wont have any problems.

Turbo on that budget, i would say GT28 off an S15 but it could possibly be on the small side. Maybe a CT26 off a 7MGTE or 3SGTE, or possibly a VG30 T03.

Objections to sump - thats a LOT of f*#cking around to keep a "cool" looking sump. I can see it being fraught with problems.

Shotpeen the standard rods and short of going for 600rwhp they will be fine.

You should be able to run a bit more then 12psi, 4ZE1 compression is what 8.7:1?

Why are you converting the pistons to full floaters?

Nick-

[Josh]

GeminiCoupe - I just found this thread about Hypatec pistons http://www.calaisturbo.com.au/archive/i ... 66415.html

I was going to go for full floating pistions because I know that is an upgrade over the original style.

Also I think maybe the GT28 would maybe spool up too early but I could be wrong. I have heard they are good turbos though.

Does anyone else know much about Hypatec pistons?

[F3ARED]

My bad, i thought you were talking about hypereutectic.

Not sure about hypatech, but if you can find out if they make them for 4ZC1's.

What are the benefits of going full floating?

[Rodeobob]

Dunno on the stud, would have to do some looking at stuff thats not here at home.

Wont matter if its a stud or a bolt i dont think, unless something else mounts to it as well. Say like the top stay for the alternator.
Id have to look.


Why 3000rpm????

Wont really matter what you do 6500-7000 RPM will see it puffed out.

If you get boost earlier in the rev range that will work well with the torque.


Seeing as you only want fairly low boost if you can get it in by 2200-2500 and keep the turbo pumpin up to 6000rpm or so that a nice big broad power band.



The alloy sump, what ever you want, polish it for bling. It hangs out the wrong side of the motor and is a bitch to get a decent exhaust past.


Nick i thought the VG30 was twin turbo.
I wouldnt use a Toyota turbo, to expensive to rebuild. You can get over $100 for a stuffed one, thats how hard they are to get bits for.

Talk to tx240 he can hook you up turbo wise.


Cheers, Bob.

[Bugle]

Why weld a socket to a bar? Why not just use a breaker bar then you don't have to ruin a socket..

VG30DET is single turbo. Yea there's a twin turbo aswell (VG30DETT). Pretty much the same thing as an RB25 turbo I think. You can get them non ballbearing with steel exhaust wheel or ballbearing with ceramic exhaust wheel. The ceramic has a limit to how fast it can spin before the turbine falls off the shaft. RB25's can be had with some type of composite compressor wheel combined with ceramic exhaust which apparently limits the boost even further..
Probably suit the engine pretty well if you're not going for huge power, they'll spool up pretty quickly..

[Josh]

Why weld a socket to a bar? Why not just use a breaker bar then you don't have to ruin a socket..

Because they are normally put on with a rattle gun via "impacted on". I broke 2 bracker bars trying to get that sucker off and as soon as I made my tool - One good wack with a hammer and it was loose. It's only a $6 socket from SuperSh#t (supercheap)

[macca_loto]

you broke 2 breaker bars?? Do you shop at supersteep? I only buy quality tools and never had a problem apart from my 17mm but thats a piece of pip[e over it LOL...

As for air tools i wouldnt work ona car without em!

CHRIS...

[Josh]

I know you all jealous of my tool but can we return to the main subject?

[Rodeobob]

Its all in the name.


Breaker bar.


Break is what it does when you hit it with a hammer.



Next time you best be jambing up the motor somehow.
With the motor in the car you cant get a rattle gun in there. You can put it in gear and pull the hand brake on. Cant say ive had any drama getting one undone.


Supershit socket + Bar + weld = Special tool.



Bob.

[Bradlze]

its the specialy made tools that makes you workshop/garage unique lol
what im guessing is they have put a stud on the water pump so it can hold down the timing cover as well..?
i dont see any other reason unless its for the tensioner? but i dont think so

[Bugle]

The stud might be there to make it easier to line the pump up when installing it with the engine in the car?

[PSIGEM]

Is this going to be street legal? as im pretty sure the largest engine you can turbo in a Gemini is a 2.4L plus need to comply with pollution regs if u want to get it engineerd but I got a feeling this is going to be a drag car?

On my engine is all bolts for the water pump, but the stud will be fine...

Ive got a GT28 Ball bearing turbo for sale, brand new, will spool fast but ive been told may be a little to small for a 2.6 if your after bulk power

Warrens ms is more then capable of running this setup

Cast pistons will handle 6-8psi daily as long as the tuning and setup is right, tuning is the key

Agree with the sump get a RWD 4ZD1 sump, alot easier and if you want to do some fabricating just so u can say ooo look i made those would still be good to make custom engine mounts, need to modify the g/box mount anyway.

Barrel cooler will be more then enough for this and be good for it...

[Rodeobob]

get a RWD 4ZD1 sump, alot easier ..

Trouble is good luck finding one.



If someone did an alloy converted sump that looked half good im sure you would sell a few at the right price.


Cheers, Bob.

[2600]

I have retained the alloy sump on my car by using a custom plenum that now sits no higher than the cam cover and by doing a simple modification to the sump to clear the steering and crossmember assembly. The motor sits a little higher than what is ideal for the best balance, but the alloy sump was worth the effort in my opinion. I use a GT28 turbo, yes they spool up early (1900-2000rpm), but the torque curve is super smooth, progressive and predictable, no wild snap and will put a huge smile on your face. The 2.6 is a large capacity motor, any boost will add a wow factor. I use a 3/4 ton pressure plate with a 5 puck, sprung centered clutch with a toyota R154 gearbox, all very easy to drive