Disputing Fines/Defects - I got off!!!
Disputing Fines/Defects - I got off!!!
Hey guys,
So Friday arvo I went down to Canberra and managed to collect a roo on the way. Damage is relatively minor, bent the bumper, smashed the grill and left headlight assembly, killed my thermo, punched a hole in the radiator and also bent the rad support a bit. Managed to find a helpful farmer who soldered up the hole for us because the replacement that was brought out had 35000 more holes in it than the original.
Anyway this morning the feds had a "Registration and Licence Check" setup along the side of the road, where they proceeded to give me fines and a defect notice despite me explaining the damage was due to the kangaroo and was out of my control. I had tried as best as possible to fix it in the short time and without replacement parts. A spare radiator was installed, all the damaged parts and dangerous protusions from the grill were removed. I deliberatly left this morning (having to take a day off work) and not Sunday night like was the plan due to only having one headlight.
They proceeded to run checks and do a noise test (which I have my doubts was done properly) and kept me there for around half an hour.
Anyway, I ended up receiving nearly $500 in fines and 1 demerit point for Conditional Licence Holder Not Display P Plate As Required (both there, rear faded but still visible, they did not give me the opportunity to replace it), Head/Tail/Number Plate Light/Lights Not On/Visible (to me that means they werent switched on, not missing entirely but amounts to the same thing I guess) and Drive Unsafely Maintained Vehicle.
I also recieved a defect notice for Missing Headlight Assembly, No Front Grill (is that even defectable, assume because of pedestrian safety?), No Front Left Indicator (all indicators there and working), Excessive Smoke (does not blow smoke, may have been condensation, was still fairly cold) and Excessive Noise (yeah maybe, but I have my doubts they did the test properly). The notice says I may not drive the vehicle after the 26th or any time at night, which is an issue as I live 45mins from work and arrive home after dark.
The thing is, nearly all these things were out of out of my control (or non-existant) and I had done my best to repair them, despite being 4 hours from home. I explained to the officer that the kangaroo was the cause of the damage and offered to show him all the damaged parts which were still in the boot, which he declined to do. He told me I should have hired a trailer and towed the car. This was not an option however because I had nothing to tow it with, cannot hire a car to tow with because they do not usually come fitted with a towbar and I am under 21, and am not able to tow a car trailer due to licence restrictions.
I plan to write a letter disputing the fines, which I do not believe are reasonable, but is it possible to have the defect notice removed without an inspection? I dont believe I should have to pay the fee to get it inspected when it was out of my control, and most decent human beings (IE. not cops) would have understood the situation. Am I likely to have the fines and defect removed without having to go to court? Court is not really an option because apparently I cant receive legal aid and dont think its worth paying for as it will more than likely end up more expensive than the fines themselves.
Is there anything I should include with the letter to help my case? I took photos of the car on my phone (8mp camera so you can actually make things out) to show the P Plate is readable and all indicators are in place. Also, the notice also says Gundaroo Drive, Cracie or Cracis or something, the fines say Gundaroo Drive, Nicholls. Between that and him not knowing what an indicator is I might be able to convince that his judgement is flawed/he is retarded.
My mum and a few mates say fight it, but other peoples 2c/advice would be nice. Plan to ring and get legal advice tomorrow, but not sure whether Ill be given any without forking cash over.
Cheers,
Andy
So Friday arvo I went down to Canberra and managed to collect a roo on the way. Damage is relatively minor, bent the bumper, smashed the grill and left headlight assembly, killed my thermo, punched a hole in the radiator and also bent the rad support a bit. Managed to find a helpful farmer who soldered up the hole for us because the replacement that was brought out had 35000 more holes in it than the original.
Anyway this morning the feds had a "Registration and Licence Check" setup along the side of the road, where they proceeded to give me fines and a defect notice despite me explaining the damage was due to the kangaroo and was out of my control. I had tried as best as possible to fix it in the short time and without replacement parts. A spare radiator was installed, all the damaged parts and dangerous protusions from the grill were removed. I deliberatly left this morning (having to take a day off work) and not Sunday night like was the plan due to only having one headlight.
They proceeded to run checks and do a noise test (which I have my doubts was done properly) and kept me there for around half an hour.
Anyway, I ended up receiving nearly $500 in fines and 1 demerit point for Conditional Licence Holder Not Display P Plate As Required (both there, rear faded but still visible, they did not give me the opportunity to replace it), Head/Tail/Number Plate Light/Lights Not On/Visible (to me that means they werent switched on, not missing entirely but amounts to the same thing I guess) and Drive Unsafely Maintained Vehicle.
I also recieved a defect notice for Missing Headlight Assembly, No Front Grill (is that even defectable, assume because of pedestrian safety?), No Front Left Indicator (all indicators there and working), Excessive Smoke (does not blow smoke, may have been condensation, was still fairly cold) and Excessive Noise (yeah maybe, but I have my doubts they did the test properly). The notice says I may not drive the vehicle after the 26th or any time at night, which is an issue as I live 45mins from work and arrive home after dark.
The thing is, nearly all these things were out of out of my control (or non-existant) and I had done my best to repair them, despite being 4 hours from home. I explained to the officer that the kangaroo was the cause of the damage and offered to show him all the damaged parts which were still in the boot, which he declined to do. He told me I should have hired a trailer and towed the car. This was not an option however because I had nothing to tow it with, cannot hire a car to tow with because they do not usually come fitted with a towbar and I am under 21, and am not able to tow a car trailer due to licence restrictions.
I plan to write a letter disputing the fines, which I do not believe are reasonable, but is it possible to have the defect notice removed without an inspection? I dont believe I should have to pay the fee to get it inspected when it was out of my control, and most decent human beings (IE. not cops) would have understood the situation. Am I likely to have the fines and defect removed without having to go to court? Court is not really an option because apparently I cant receive legal aid and dont think its worth paying for as it will more than likely end up more expensive than the fines themselves.
Is there anything I should include with the letter to help my case? I took photos of the car on my phone (8mp camera so you can actually make things out) to show the P Plate is readable and all indicators are in place. Also, the notice also says Gundaroo Drive, Cracie or Cracis or something, the fines say Gundaroo Drive, Nicholls. Between that and him not knowing what an indicator is I might be able to convince that his judgement is flawed/he is retarded.
My mum and a few mates say fight it, but other peoples 2c/advice would be nice. Plan to ring and get legal advice tomorrow, but not sure whether Ill be given any without forking cash over.
Cheers,
Andy
Last edited by ajs991 on Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You're not going to get out of the dangerous vehicle stuff just cos the roo was out of your control... ie. if i run over a nail and pop a tyre, that wasn't under my control, but continuing to drive it with a flat tyre is dangerous and IS under my control, see my point? And I don't see the relevance of you not being able to tow it yourself, this is why tow trucks exist...
You got unlucky with the cop not sympathising, and they were pricks, but they were within their rights. The faded P-plate issue is another matter but I'd say it's not gonna be worth fighting unless the demerit point is gonna suspend your licence or something.
You got unlucky with the cop not sympathising, and they were pricks, but they were within their rights. The faded P-plate issue is another matter but I'd say it's not gonna be worth fighting unless the demerit point is gonna suspend your licence or something.
I suspect you will have to take this one in the arse. If it's that bad you need a tow cause it's dangerous and cops s*#t on you when they see ya driving around with bits missing and hangin off. Clearly this one took a shine to you too which is just bad luck
They think they've got me by the balls but they don't - their hands aren't big enough.
Bernie Ecclestone
Bernie Ecclestone
Gay. Not what I was hoping to hear. But I can see what you mean.
Still be mailing people, worth a try.
Still be mailing people, worth a try.
Was more the fact that he told me to hire a trailer and tow it, thats why I made that point. Either way, tow truck home would be ridiculously expensive.Merko wrote:And I don't see the relevance of you not being able to tow it yourself, this is why tow trucks exist....
Lol cops often know s*#t-all about the laws they have the responsibility to uphold (great, huh?), take anything a cop tells you with a grain of salt. Like the time some idiot pigs wanted to defect my car for having factory spec 175mm wide tyres on factory wheels as they were "too wide and protruding from the guard" (which was ridiculous bulls*#t as it only appeared that way as he was standing on an angle). Luckily I managed to talk my way out of it and the other horse s*#t about my car dribbling from the pigs' mouths.
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Um, factory spec standard tyres were NOT 175mm wide on all models, some TC and later models optioned a wider tyre equivalent to the 175mm wide tyre but it was never standard... (except perhaps on the TG ZZ/Z model??)
Standard tyres were Y78-13, YR78-13 or 155R-13.
Optional tyres were 165/75SR-13, ZR78-13 or ZR70-13.
Cross reference to current sizing specs for these sizes is:
Y78-13 & YR78-13 - 145/85-13
155R-13.- 155/80-13
165/75SR-13 - 165/75-13
ZR78-13 - 155/80R 13
ZR70-13 - 175/70R 13
Standard tyres were Y78-13, YR78-13 or 155R-13.
Optional tyres were 165/75SR-13, ZR78-13 or ZR70-13.
Cross reference to current sizing specs for these sizes is:
Y78-13 & YR78-13 - 145/85-13
155R-13.- 155/80-13
165/75SR-13 - 165/75-13
ZR78-13 - 155/80R 13
ZR70-13 - 175/70R 13
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O RLY?
And you know the particular car I am talking about how exactly?
And you know the particular car I am talking about how exactly?
So yes, they WERE factory spec.http://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.au/ho ... ations.htm
Holden Gemini RB Technical Specifications
# Tyres:
* Front: 175/70-R13
* Rear: 175/70-R13
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legal expenses will be yours.There is no free legal service in traffic cases. Legal aid is reserved for criminal situations and usually only if the person plans on pleading guilty.
It's probably not worth the effort to fight it. Fair enough they were pretty hard on you where they could have been understanding that you collected a roo. However, you are expected to repair to a roadworthy condition before driving the car again or trailer/truck it to a place of repair. Yeah I know, it isn't always possible but that's how it is.
If you did choose top fight it and lost, legal fees for your barrister would add up to $4000 or more, probably more. Chances of winning are remote. What would you be fighting, the laws are clear, a car must comply with roadworthy laws.
The only possible thing I can think of is that your car is NSW registered and the defect was issued in ACT right? If so then you may find the defect isn't going to carry over to NSW. Don't take my word for it, discreetly check with RTA. You may find the ACT defect isn't going to impact you in NSW.
Not saying to ignore it, you still need to get your car repaired and made safe again. Just may give you a bit more time to get it right.
It's probably not worth the effort to fight it. Fair enough they were pretty hard on you where they could have been understanding that you collected a roo. However, you are expected to repair to a roadworthy condition before driving the car again or trailer/truck it to a place of repair. Yeah I know, it isn't always possible but that's how it is.
If you did choose top fight it and lost, legal fees for your barrister would add up to $4000 or more, probably more. Chances of winning are remote. What would you be fighting, the laws are clear, a car must comply with roadworthy laws.
The only possible thing I can think of is that your car is NSW registered and the defect was issued in ACT right? If so then you may find the defect isn't going to carry over to NSW. Don't take my word for it, discreetly check with RTA. You may find the ACT defect isn't going to impact you in NSW.
Not saying to ignore it, you still need to get your car repaired and made safe again. Just may give you a bit more time to get it right.
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I do not give permission for anyone to reproduce content from my posts.
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No, they were around the corner at a service station, about 3 minutes drive away.LOK15 wrote:take it to court , but dont dispute all of them only some , maybe , and just maybe , the judge might drop all of them.
were the photos you took actually on the roadside where said officer booked you?
Thats right, NSW reg and ACT defect. I will look into it and see what the go is.Germinator wrote:legal expenses will be yours.There is no free legal service in traffic cases. Legal aid is reserved for criminal situations and usually only if the person plans on pleading guilty.
It's probably not worth the effort to fight it. Fair enough they were pretty hard on you where they could have been understanding that you collected a roo. However, you are expected to repair to a roadworthy condition before driving the car again or trailer/truck it to a place of repair. Yeah I know, it isn't always possible but that's how it is.
If you did choose top fight it and lost, legal fees for your barrister would add up to $4000 or more, probably more. Chances of winning are remote. What would you be fighting, the laws are clear, a car must comply with roadworthy laws.
The only possible thing I can think of is that your car is NSW registered and the defect was issued in ACT right? If so then you may find the defect isn't going to carry over to NSW. Don't take my word for it, discreetly check with RTA. You may find the ACT defect isn't going to impact you in NSW.
Not saying to ignore it, you still need to get your car repaired and made safe again. Just may give you a bit more time to get it right
I repaired the car to a roadworthy state this afternoon, with the exception of the smoke, because it does not exist, and the noise, because I cant do this myself (no welder).
I was thinking about it today and decided I will still send them a letter asking that they withdraw the fines. Im hoping if I explain the circumstances and be apologetic enough they will withdraw them. Worst they can do is say no. If they do, I wont bother taking it to court. Itll just be easier and cheaper to pay them, and as Germy said, I guess I have no real grounds to fight them.
For the defect, Ill take it to the local bloke who always does my pink/blue slips. I dont think ill have any major issues, all the items listed are fairly minor after all.
Cheers guys
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just take it in the ass man.. unless u got 25 grand to bust up in legal fees, or a ritch ass solicitor father.. just bend over and ask them to use lude to soften the blow.
its just bad luck, bad timing and another example of revenue raising cops.
learn from the mistake and dont do it again.
its just bad luck, bad timing and another example of revenue raising cops.
learn from the mistake and dont do it again.
Boostin for lyfe!