Another distraction. TE SEDAN

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Jonno
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Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN

Post by Jonno »

F3ARED wrote:Im led to believe your wrong, unless my mrs has gone and started assembling s*#t on it?

Seriously but. Ive done f*#k all except waste hours on mine and get nowhere. Ive got a week off from work coming up around Queens bday, expect movement then.
I might do skids in the coupe

get out and do skids in the sedan

and let my SS idle
75 TX Coupe
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F3ARED
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Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN

Post by F3ARED »

You know the saying out-of-sight-out-of-mind? Well, that kinda happened with this thing. Tucked it away at the back of the wifes grandparents place in the carport behind he garage and shed and left it there. We'd go visit the oldies and because of where it was stashed you'd forget it was even there, and pretty much forget we owned it we did. That is until Nan and Pop decided to sell the house after almost 50years of ownership and build new. Which by extension means this came home end of Jan.

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First things first, make it waterproof. Ive fitted heaps of Gemini front/rear screens over the years and its gotten to the point where im quite good at them - good enough that when I fit them, they dont leak, unlike the one Obriens fitted when my windscreen exploded due to an errant rock on our honeymoon. Did the usual, roped it in and it sat a little bit proud in the bottom corner. Thumped it with my palm and it must have been under tension because about 30sec after getting it seated it exploded, showering me and the dog with glass.

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Replacement rear which had funky 80s purple tint. Peeling the tint was the easy bit...getting rid of the glue residue f*#cking took forever, and thats using thinners too.

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Fitted/seated properly

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Tail lights in and bar on, looking more like a car now

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Magna remote boot release is pretty much a bolt on swap for this. Given that it may end up being my daily for a little while i figure this [along with central locking swap] would make life a bit nicer. New carpet inside, seats cleaned and reinstalled [forgot to take photos of all this] and inside is pretty much done. Which brings us to the fire-in-the-hole noisemaker bit. Bit of a discussion with the nopics, we have way too many cars and i dont feel like pouring giant sums of cash or devoting giant amounts of time into this one. I argued that throwing a carb back on it and getting it running is better than it sitting in the back yard and sucking up cash. She reluctantly agreed, so turbo and EFI gear came off and goes back on the shelf. Initial plan was to throw a 32/36 Weber on it except inexplicably people want good money for these, and even the reproductions are 400 odd. Bugger that.

Found an IDF Redline manifold for $100 local. Good price and the young fella even offered to deliver it to my father inlaws. Decision made. Began the hunt for a second hand set of Dellorto DRLA40s or IDF40s. Bzzt, no dice. Found a few sets of rough as f*#k 36IDFs which arguably might have been a bit on the small side anyway but the best part was the fella selling them was asking $450 for the pair of them despite the fact they had black scorch marks all over them and had visibly been on fire. :rotflol: No thanks.

Bit the bullet and bought a pair of the repro IDF40s. No, i am under no disillusion that these are anywhere near the quality of a genuine Italian made Weber. However, id argue that given they are substantially cheaper plus i dont have to strip them down and rebuild them these should be perfectly ample, even if one carb turns out to be a POS and i need to replace one. Should be relatively straight forward right? Right?!

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Yep. Only I could buy parts made for each other and still have problems....

So it turns out earlier Redline IDF manifolds had a smaller spacing between cylinders 2 and 3, presumably to get the runners for number 4 away from the brake booster. Except of course, the whole point of going IDFs is because they are meant to clear the brake booster. This smaller gap combined with the throttle shafts being longish means the nuts and linkages were sitting on top of each other.

Fair bit of f*#cking around later including manually thinning down the throttle linkages and nuts [nuts were hand filed to half thickness...yes it took ages] plus cutting the throttle shafts down and it all fits.

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Ready.

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Set.

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Go.

Except, of course, it wouldnt. I cannot describe the feeling that goes through you when you are trying to start a motor you've built yourself for the first time and it refuses to go. Hit the starter and all i got was a tired groan out of it, even though id bench tested it and it tested fine. Added a few more earths and got that cranking nice and quickly, oil pressure light out virtually instantly. Next step, no spark. Worked out id bought the wrong ignitor from the wreckers - N13 Pulsar is meant for a hall effect dizzy, this has a variable reluctor. f*#k, pinch points dizzy out of the gold car and crank it. Nice and fat spark zap now, so time to prime the fuel system. Connect pump to 12V, fuel filter full and...sniff...what the f*#k? Can smell fuel.

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Ladies and gentleman, may i present to you 1x Chinese made M10 x 1mm x 8mm barb fuel fitting. Noticed a drip out of the Carb and touched the fitting only to find out it was hand tight. Interesting...turned it with my fingertips and it came off in my hand. Replaced all of the barbs with new ally ones, no fuel leaks. Put coil lead on dizzy and...

....it wont f*#cking start. This is where i begin to pull my hair out. I have fuel, I have spark, I have compression. What i dont have is a running car - what the f*#cking f*#k? Did i get the cam timing wrong when i built the engine? Did i put the dizzy in wrong? Has to be timing surely, it wants to cough and fire. Tried advance/retard, it goes to fire and then dies. Really scratching my head at this point and the swearing and screaming and backfires out the open extractors means the dogs decided shes had enough and taken off round the other side of the house. I swear i used to get more s*#t done as a smoker; youd get frustrated/pissed off, you'd have a quick ciggie and that 5mins of clarity means you find the problem instead of hurling s*#t around the garage.

Has to be timing. Took the dizzy out and decided to time it the same way I do whenever im replacing a dizzy. Turn crank to 5deg BTDC. Dizzy in, rotor pointing at number 1. It should fire. It has to fire.

It doesnt. Except this time, im looking at the dizzy [known good one] as im cranking it. And as its just about to fire and cough I notice something. You know how you leave the locking bolt a bit loose so you can set the timing? Well. It turns out that on an engine with decent comp when it goes to kick into life, the dizzy moves. Ive effectively wasted an hour trying to start this thing with no joy because the dizzy kept retarding itself. :(:knock:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPsk5VR ... e=youtu.be

Almost there!
Previously GeminiCoupe/GeminiRollingShell/SCAR3D/Jonnoisac#nt

78 TD Gemini Sedan - R.I.P
81 TE Gemini Sedan
tobytj
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:46 pm
Location: Brisbane

Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN

Post by tobytj »

Not just the Redline IDF manifolds that have that close carby spacing. I have one for a cortina that has the identical spacing and it is not a Redline. You can buy new shafts that have a washer welded on one end instead of the nut and washer.

The older IDF came in a left hand and right hand pair but the newer Webers and reproductions only come in one version (right hand i think). There are aftermarket kits to convert to left hand linkages as it is a must for VW applications.
F3ARED
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Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN

Post by F3ARED »

tobytj wrote:Not just the Redline IDF manifolds that have that close carby spacing. I have one for a cortina that has the identical spacing and it is not a Redline. You can buy new shafts that have a washer welded on one end instead of the nut and washer.

The older IDF came in a left hand and right hand pair but the newer Webers and reproductions only come in one version (right hand i think). There are aftermarket kits to convert to left hand linkages as it is a must for VW applications.
Had never seen/heard of it before so it kind of caught me by surprise. All the images id looked up / all manifolds id seen in person for IDFs have the larger spacing between 2 and 3. Talking to Ben Wight about it and he sent me some photos of his Redline IDF manifold and it appears they revised it in later production. Was kind of under the pump time wise at the time as i still thought it would make the Gemini Nationals at that point so ended up just modifying what I had. Appears to work ok opening throttles by hand, just need to make a bracket up and shorten the threaded section on the accel cable and see if it works. Narrower spacing is a pain in the arse as theres not a hope in hell that the Alfa style center sync/carb joiner/throttle linkage arrangement would work.

You are right in that both carbs are RHS.

Just have central section of exhaust to finish plus mounting a thermo temp sensor/switch and should be able to start tuning it. Really...not...looking...forward to that. LOL
Previously GeminiCoupe/GeminiRollingShell/SCAR3D/Jonnoisac#nt

78 TD Gemini Sedan - R.I.P
81 TE Gemini Sedan
F3ARED
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Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:55 pm
Location: Melbourne, Victoria

Re: Another distraction. TE SEDAN

Post by F3ARED »

Brief recap of the last year. I probably should make more of an effort to update this thread. I should probably also make more of an effort to work on this stupid thing too.

So i probably should start with a public service announcement for anyone reading this; whatever you do, DO NOT BOTHER WITH THE FAJS WEBER COPIES; yes, even the ones that are sold by the engineer that was once a member on this site and sells lots of Gemini stuff. Supposedly they were checked over and float heights were set which i can confirm they most definitely were not. Ill elaborate on the whys further down.

Basically Ive always had huge issues with the car not running right. Its always been overly fuelly, leaning it out has made no change and its gradually gotten worse. Ive tried, Roddy has tried, even Lok gave it a stab at nationals. Zilch. Zip. Nada. Prior to Nationals we spent a fair bit of time with Rod trying to get it running correctly including potentially redoing the jetting but after talking with Thornbury Carbs they convinced me to leave it alone and try and what was causing it to be so rich. Put 2x genuine weber needles and seats into it, measured the float heights which were supposed to have been set to 11.5mm only to discover they are f*#cking all over the joint [one was 10.5mm with gasket, the other was 13mm] so reset them both to 11.2mm and full-extension on both is nigh-on 30mm. Managed to tear the top gaskets getting the float out which was annoying so another trip to Thornbury Carbs for gaskets. Whacked them on, reassembled the carbs and then Roddy came past and we reset everything again.

Zero'd the air bleeds, reset idle mixture, checked linkages, sync'd the carbs up and did around 500km in the next two days before putting it on the trailer for nationals. Still fuelly, but engine runs ok and sounds good. Bit concerned about running a fresh engine so rich but not much i can do about that. See here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gt5tztIacYE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv0kc2hHS1g

Loaded it up on the trailer, met up with Roddy and Kelli in Yea then took off for The Entrance.

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Got there and fired it up to get it off the trailer....except it doesnt fire. And when it does, its running on 3cylinders and pig rich. What. The. f*#k? Bonnet up [this would become a regular occurance] and try to work out whats going on. Plugs are wetter than a pornstar - rip them out, clean them up [Chris with the rota gem - thanks heaps mate; whod have thought a rotary owner would have the perfect tool for plug cleaning ], whack them back in and get ready for the cruise on Sunday. Took it for a quick run to some car show on that Saturday and it behaved so we should be ok.

Cruise rolls round and this is the first time the Mrs is going to get to rack up some decent ks in it, prior to this shed only done roughly 20ks in it doing a few laps of the suburb trying to get used to it again [its been 4 years since she last drove it]. Driving ok but it smells like its getting richer again so we open the air bleeds up a bit.

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Get to the first stop for photos, go to restart and....surprise, it wont start. f*#k.

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Bonnet up, work out its flooded. Get it going again and go to the next stop for lunch which means going over wisemanns ferry where it wont restart to get onto the ferry. f*#k. Swap seats with the mrs, I jump in and roll start it and get it going in time to drive onto the ferry. f*#cked if im turning it off though.

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After lunch it gradually runs worse and worse. Something is seriously wrong with this thing and every time we go to start it, it either wont start or runs on 3 till the plugs clear up. Almost complete the cruise - ALMOST. 12ks from camp the charge light comes on and the f*#cking thing shuts down. At this point im f*#cking glad i trailed it up there - run back to camp, grab the jackaroo, grab the trailer and come get this. Unload it in the spot next to the cabin and leave it there for the next few days while we enjoy whats left of our holiday.

Sitting around bored and Roddy decides he wants to try and sort it out. Go to start it and....wait a minute, that noise sounds familiar. f*#cking thing is hydrolocked, plugs on 3 and 4 are f*#cking drenched. For f&*ks sake. bonnet up again.

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This time we go through the whole f*#cking thing. Carbs apart again, check float heights, check floats actually float, check linkages, check accel pumps [one on back carb was mega sensitive] so back that one right off. Linkage has too much flex - is that causing it to trickle fuel in? Is the returnless setup overcoming the needle and seat and bleeding the pressure through while the car is off? Do all this s*#t, still garbage.

Anyway, Greg decides he wants to take some photos so we limp it 50m down to the water in the caravan park whilst i contemplate letting the handbrake down to let the f*#cking thing roll into Tuggerah Lake. Photos came out awesome but unfortunately car is still a f*#cking shitbox.

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So since the 'nats ive done nothing with this apart from walk around it in my driveway, been way too busy with the little one and the house reno. Jonno organized a track day in Albury, paid up - now just need to get this going properly so i can use it - dont really want to throw the wifes WRX on the track.

The conclusion weve come to is these carbs are basically fit for the bin; currently leaning towards porosity on the casting allowing fuel to dribble into the cylinder as it keeps filling cylinders 3 and 4 with fuel when left to sit. Pulled 3L of fuel out of the sump when i drained it the other day. First things first though, im a bit concerned about the amount of fuel this thing has taken on. Being a fresh engine im worried that the over-fuelling may have hurt it and glazed a bore. Tried comp testing it in the driveway where it proceeded to shoot a whole heap of fuel out of #4 plughole, across driveway and 5m away to fence. Sump is full of fuel so dropped the oil and left it out with the plugs out to hopefully evap anything left in cyl. Pulled just over 6L out of the sump, which is fair going given that the sump on a Gemini only holds 3.2L without the filter! Rest was all raw fuel. Comp tester went on last night and results are....

140 140 100 140. f*#k.

Didnt get a chance last night to throw a bit of oil in the cyl and see if it comes up; if theres a spike in comp it pretty much garauntees the bore on #3 is glazed, if no change then it looks like it might be a bit wide in the valve clearance. Doubt it though as theres usually a bit of noise to go with the valve clearance being out of spec and theres no indication of that. Basically my only real option is to throw a working standard carb on it and go find some hills and put some real load through it and hope that it comes good. Otherwise, its engine out which i really do not have time nor inclination to do. Will hopefully get that on this weekend so I can run some k's through it and then hopefully get the thing to get some comp up.

Regardless of what happens with the engine [wether i have to pull it to re-ring it/hone it or not], im not leaving it with a standard carb. Its not an overly-worked engine but its hopped up enough to make use of some more air/fuelling. Plus it sounds better and the standard Nikki 2 barrels are aids. Thought about fuel injecting it as I have enough left over bits to cobble something together and then decided I was making it far too complicated for a car I give no f&*ks for so I was having none of that.

Plan A, and Plan B.

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Plan A is a redline side-draft manifold currently fitted with Mikuni-Solex PHH40s. Yes, they are the dreaded "Type T" version which means gasket kits are expensive to get and they rattle the venturis loose. No, they arent going to be worse than the garbage I had on there previously. Someone that knows what they are doing has had a play with these at some point as the grub screws holding the venturis in are loctited properly and it looks like the screws been machined to a slight point with a corresponding divot being drilled into the venturi, because they are located f*#cking tightly. Theyve also had some epoxy put on the bottom of the throat and been ported to match the manifold. Plan B is just yer-olde faithful 32/36 Escort/Cortina weber on a standard Gem manifold, but thats boring so will only go on if i fail [again] to get twin carbies working.

Need a bit of a cleanup first however as they are properly manky...

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Wasted the weekend a bit but did get some spanner time on this. Turns out the compression issues were valve clearances - nothing jumped out as being "too tight" but after having two goes at it i managed to get all 4 pots to within 5psi of each other - number 3 came up from just under 100 to 138 which was good. I knew i was on the right track when #2 dropped to 90 because i f*#cked the clearance up

What wasnt so good is the plug thread on 4 has finally given up the ghost. Has always been a bit dicky and difficult to get the plug in and started properly. Got two turns in and felt it start to bind...ffs. Looks like its time to get the thread repair guys out.

Anyway. The Saga continues.
Previously GeminiCoupe/GeminiRollingShell/SCAR3D/Jonnoisac#nt

78 TD Gemini Sedan - R.I.P
81 TE Gemini Sedan
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