Stock RB dizzy internals

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Josh
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Stock RB dizzy internals

Post by Josh »

I just wanted to know if the stock RB internals in a dizzy have a hall effect sensor? Is that what a hall effect sensor is? When the spike goes past the magnet?

Thanks

Josh
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

What's the plan Josh? Integrating an RB dissy internals into an EFI setup perhaps?
Gemi Coupe
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Post by Gemi Coupe »

I think your thinking of an inductive pickup sensor. that has a small metal tooth that passes a sensor, creating the signal.
A hall sensor has a disc with slots cut into it. as the slot passes through the hall sensor it changes the magnetic field in the sensor, causing the signal to be generated.
there is also an optical sensor that is just like the hall sensor, has little slots cut into a disc, but uses an optical sensor and small light in place of the hall sensor.
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

Yeah. I'd call the RB a RELUCTOR setup.

A reluctor generates an alternating current that the detection circuitry sees as a phase shift. Reluctors have two wires coming from them. Positive and negative signal.

A Hall Effect generator creates a distinct digital on-off signal. Hall sensors have three wires coming from them. Hall 12V, Hall signal, Hall ground.
Last edited by Poida on Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Gemi Coupe
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Post by Gemi Coupe »

i considered going into detail but i didn't want to confuse the kid!
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

I am confused!! :shock:

How's that KalMaker of yours? Back from repairs yet?
Gemi Coupe
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Post by Gemi Coupe »

yep, got it back on wednesday, i will be heading out into the shed in a few hours when the battery is finished charging, all i need now is a 3 BAR map sensor and on goes the charger 8)
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

I found a really good article here that might confuse people even further in understanding all about how RELUCTOR and HALL EFFECT ignition switching work and the differences between them.

All about electronic ignition systems

Just for their information, the crank angle sensors used in cars like the VP Commodore is also a HALL EFFECT system. It is very common in use as a means of crank angle sensing.
ZD1T
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Post by ZD1T »

yes, RB Gemini dizzy internals are a variable reluctor.

for a hall sensor (if thats what you need) check out a 2.6 rodeo, from memory they have a slotted disc, i may be wrong though
FieldEffect
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Post by FieldEffect »

Do RB distributer internals fit inside a RWD gemini dizy housing?

You would need to replace the shaft as well?
ZD1T
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Post by ZD1T »

i dont think the shaft needs changing, i have never heard of that, im pretty sure you just fit the whole advance plate with the sensors on it and remove the pickup wheel fromthe shaft.

what coil and ignition module are you using to trigger it? because a bosch 4 pin module from a ford telstar 2.0 is a pretty good option, and is the cheapest one available, $66 if ordered through supercheap auto from bosch.

part number BIM 024
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

The internals of an RB will adapt to a RWD Gemini. It's a complete package including a module. No need to buy any other components. Use your original Gemini dissy (or a suitable high power aftermarket one to suit the Gemini) with the ballast resistor. All you are changing is the method of switching the coil.

I'll try to explain it briefly but I'll photograph and document the next one I convert so there is a proper tutorial for people to refer to. You can really understand it better with a pictorial to show the different steps.

It's a reasonably detailed conversion and there is a risk you will damage the components if you don't be careful as you handle them.

Look at the two distributors side by side and you will see the advance plate is exactly the same except for the locating points for the fittings and the punched out holes on the movable section are different shapes.

You need to strip out your T series dissy till you have a bare casing with the lower shaft still in place. Remove the side clips and the small steel tabs that hold the advance plate assembly in place. They are held in by screws under the rubber inserts. Take note of which advance spring is where. They may look similar but they are both different. I suggest grabbing a cheap bottle light coloured of nail polish from some discount store. Mark the spring and weight from one side and also dab a bit on the base plate so you can see they all go on that side. I'd also recommend you take some digtal images at different stages too. It's important the springs stay on the right side and go back in the exact same way without stretching them. It's also important the upper plate goes back in the same way round in relation to the lower shaft or you'll end up with the rotor button being 180° out of phase.

You need to fit all the same components from the RB dissy that you have taken out of the T series housing back into it. Use the original advance springs and weights that you removed from the T series dissy.

When installing the advance plate, you will see that there are slight recesses inside the dissy housing where the advance plate clips locate. You'll also notice the advance plate needs to be located 90° out of phase to how it was in the RB housing so the wire plug and reluctor electronic components will all line up. You will need to cut and file two notches in the T series housing to locate the metal tabs from the reluctor components and drill some mounting screw holes as well.

The two reluctor components need to be secured in the housing. They are connected by two wires. Be careful not to stress the wires and break them. One part (the reluctor component) is held in by two screws similar to how points attach to the advance plate. The other component (the Electronic Control Module) is held onto the outer case by small screws. Two wires pass through the distributor housing via the rubber seal grommet. One (RED) goes to the ignition positive (+) wire that attaches to the wiring loom side of the coil ballast resistor. The second (BLACK) wire goes to the negative (-) terminal of the coil.

You need to adjust the reluctor componet by loosening the screw and passing a brass feeler guage between the reluctor trigger and the sensor. The correct air gap should be between 0.2mm and 0.4mm. Do not use a steel feeler guage to set it. Also be really careful not to introduce any steel filings into the dissy. It has strong magnetic components that will be damaged if steel filings attach to them. Check the air gap is correct with a dwell meter. Dwell should be between 40° & 50° with the engine running @ 1500rpm.

MOST IMPORTANT: Be sure the shaft freely spins by hand and the sensor is secured by the two screws in the advance plate before installing it in the engine. If the two parts collide then you just killed an RB conversion.

If you find this description confusing and can't follow what I'm explaining, you should probably wait till I write the proper tutorial with pictures.
Last edited by Poida on Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ZD1T
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Post by ZD1T »

yer good write up poida, i mentioned the bosch part as some aftermarket management computers require a "bosch 4 pin reluctor module" there are heaps of them, ranging up to $400, and they all work the same, the most common one is the BIM 024, i mentioned, as they are used on alot of cars, not just the telstar, and they are the cheapest
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

Yep. There are different types of reluctor systems around. Most common are those Bosch ones with the inner and outer "star" ring type setups.

Image

They always seem to have an external module. An example of these is the Camira dissy setup.

The RB Gemini module is contained inside the dissy housing.
Last edited by Poida on Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ZD1T
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Post by ZD1T »

the two wires coming out of the dizzy, what do they go to in the rb, straight to the coil?
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