What Distributor Is This??

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ATG23Q
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What Distributor Is This??

Post by ATG23Q »

Hey guys.

Basically im trying to work out what this distributor is from. It is electronic, and is on a G161 at the moment. It is hooked up to a Bosch module.

Heres some pics:

Image
Image
Image
Image

As you can tell im no expert in this area, so any help is greatly appreciated.

Cheers
Last edited by ATG23Q on Tue Feb 21, 2012 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Crumz
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Post by Crumz »

Can we see it with the cap off??
Twin stage Vac advance unit... Possibly shuttle?
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ATG23Q
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Post by ATG23Q »

Here ya go:

Image

Any help?
ONLYA4
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Post by ONLYA4 »

well to me it looks like an RB dizzy's internals. Is it a standard gemini dizzy with RB internals and a vacuum advance unit?
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Post by Rodeobob »

Crumz wrote:Can we see it with the cap off??
Twin stage Vac advance unit... Possibly shuttle?
I highly doubt its from a Shuttle. It woudnt fit in the front of the motor.


Id say its out of a late G200 Jackaroo. (same internals as the Shuttle and Piazza)
The std moduld is replaced with the one in the pic.

If you could note down the model and wiring postions of that module that could help a lot of folks out and save them looking for the std type modules.

Cheers. Bob.
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ATG23Q
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Post by ATG23Q »

ONLYA4 wrote:well to me it looks like an RB dizzy's internals. Is it a standard gemini dizzy with RB internals and a vacuum advance unit?
Nah its not a standard dizzy. I have that setup (RB internals) on my G200, and its different. The vacuum advance on the standard dizzy's are on the rear.

Which setup do you guys think would be better on a worked G200? If this one is better i'll throw it on...
Last edited by ATG23Q on Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

It's a Nippon Denso reluctor type dissy with the same internals as would be found in an RB Gemini. It will have two wires coming from the dissy and unless it is operating an EFI system or some sort of engine management ignition system there is no reason to have the Bosch module at all.

The silver box is a run of the mill isolating relay.
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

OK... seems a heck of a lot of people have the impression you need an extrnal module with the Nippon Denso reluctor system. You don't if it's just used to replace a points dissy in a non EFI engine.

The RB engine has NO external module. My LPG engine has NO external module. They don't need one.
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Post by ATG23Q »

Poida wrote:OK... seems a heck of a lot of people have the impression you need an extrnal module with the Nippon Denso reluctor system. You don't if it's just used to replace a points dissy in a non EFI engine.

The RB engine has NO external module. My LPG engine has NO external module. They don't need one.
Thats the way my G200 is setup as well. Standard distributor converted with RB internals and a Bosch module. Thats how the auto electrician set it up.
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Post by Poida »

I have no idea why the sparky set it up that way but I do know that particular setup needs no external module, I can assure you of that. If it did, why would my LPG car be running perfectly and all I did was wired it like this:

Image
Make a note of how the gemini coil is still wired through the ballast resistor and the reluctor wiring gets the full car voltage by getting wired to the loom side of the ballast resistor. I use a transistor type coil of the type suited for a gemini car.

I used the internal of an RB in a TG dissy housing. I kept the wiring as it came from the RB, dissy to the plug then the plug goes to the coil. Wired it exactly the same except for the (+) positive wire going to the 12v main instead of the lower voltage at the T series Gemini coil (+). The RB has a full 12V coil voltage.

Image
This image shows how the original RB dissy is wired up. No mention of any external module at all. (Genuine RB workshop manual image)




External module such as used in Delco based LD Astra EFI system:
Image
The external module would be used such as this diagram indicates. This particular one is wired in a Delco 808 EMS and the module is there to allow the ECU to control the timing of the ignition system as well as reference the crank angle through the distributor. In this case you would set the distributor up in such a way that it was fixed with no mechanical or vacuum advance. All the advance is controlled by the ECU. The distributor would be physically set at a fixed location and the ECU then controls advance and retard electronicly. You never alter the distributor position as it then alters the reference for the crank angle.

An example of how the ECU manages ignition advance. The exact specs may vary.

The engine management system NEVER reads a signal indicating the engine is at TDC. It calculates where TDC is from a signal sent at a point when the crank is close to say 45° BTDC. The ECU computes the best possible ignition timing using information from all the sensors in the EMS. Think about it. How can the engine using a signal AT TDC then make the ignition fire (or an injector squirt) at a point it has already passed? It can't.

The module is there to control the ignition timing when the ECU isn't in control of ignition timing. At start up before the engine reaches a predetermined speed, or if the engine is in limp home mode, the ECU isn't in control. The basic preset system controls are operating. ECU normally begins to take control once the engine had reached a speed of about 450-600rpm. It also controls some other aspects of the ignition control as well.
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Post by ONLYA4 »

Poida, a lot of people replace the standard RB module with an external module from an XF falcon which are beleived to be a better module.
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Post by Loz »

Poida, a lot of people replace the standard RB module with an external module from an XF falcon which are beleived to be a better module.
Yes, that is what i have done/would do. They are a much better module and should the internal one go, much easier to find and replace (and cheaper).
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

If the internal one were to go (mind you they don't often fault) then I have all the components in the glove box in a zip top plastic bag. That allows me to change in the worst possible circumstances, miles from home on a trip.. If I happened to break down near home I'd just grab a standard dissy and swap it.

anyway, the thing I'm saying is that there is no need to run an extarnal regulator when the dissy is already complete. It's like running two relays. One isn't needed.

This is the same type of internals as everyone knows them.
Image

This is what it looks like with the plastic covers removed.
Image

Everything needed is contained under the covers. I haven't ever tried to remove anything from the internals of these reluctor type units. Can't see the need if it works. If it breaks then thats another thing but I have not yet come across a broken one.

The same internals are used in a number of distributors other than the RB Gemini and the 2.3L Rodeo or Jackaroo. The Holden Drover and the 2.0L Shuttle also used the same internals. All aplications where it is used are in a similar casing, all use the exact same base plate and it can be removed and refitted in a T series gemini housing. A number of HEI Mitsubishi cars and commercials from the 80's all use the same dissy internals.
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Post by Rodeobob »

Poida wrote:This is the same type of internals as everyone knows them.
Image

This is what it looks like with the plastic covers removed.
Image
Hang on Poida. This^^^^

Dont look like this
ATG23Q wrote:Here ya go:

Image

Any help?
It looks like this
Image
Thats B1 on the left and Piazza on the right. The one thats missing from the pic is the G200Z out of the late Jackaroo, well its not its the one the thread is about.

All they have in them is the pick up coil they are missing the ignighter module. Hence its external. Its pictured in your diagrams. Pick up then ignighter.

The one you posted is the same internals as the 2L Shuttle and the 2.3L Rodeo. Its an internal ignighter module. Middle two, 2L Shuttle left 2.3L Rodeo right.
Image

The module isnt realy external in the LD Astra/N13 Pulsar. It still housed in the distributor body.

Bob.
Last edited by Rodeobob on Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Poida
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Post by Poida »

My appologies.. you are correct Bob.

I mistook that initial dissy in the image for the RB type internals. DOH! That type is definately different although it's still made by Nippon Denso. Now it makes sense why an external module has been fitted.

The RB type I have shown does not need an external module though. It's all self contained.
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